They Had To Kill A Random Person For Gang Initiation… But They Chose The Wrong Kid If you think that this couldn’t happen to you, think again. Ross Capicchioni was just a regular kid driving a friend home. Then his life changed forever. Sharing Is Caring! Tweet Pin It Related Posts Skydivers Escape Fiery Plane Crash By… Skydiving Dying People Are Asking To Be Sent Here. When You See Why, You’ll Either Love It Or Hate It This Kid Should Be In Third Grade, But He’s High On Pot And Drunk Off Whiskey Syd AndDana Takeshta This needs to be made into a movie! God bless you! Be Gods hands in this world. Reply back I don’t give a fuck God doesn’t exist. If he did, may he go back in time with his great and mighty powers and stop this from happening. Oh no, looks like you’re wrong. James JustJames Parks Awesome story. All credit goes to God, the victim, and the person who called in the crime. Purpose can never be stopped. It was meant for him to live for a reason. zzzzz Oh yeah “god” is great…How many people have died in Ukraine recently? Following what you morons believe, “god” is responsible for all that happens. # of deaths > # of lives saved. Your “god” is a fucking asshole. ploof Not necessarily true. 1 you don’t know what James specific beliefs are and 2 you don’t know the Ukrainian beliefs in god and 3 if you did believe in god there is also a devil. They both test faith in actions life and death. So educate yourself before you insult others beliefs Xyz OK- this is where issues with specific beliefs are- imagine God exists. Does it matter what James’s God is? The idea of a God is that he’s all powerful and merciful- that’s a recurring theme in most religions. If he were to be so merciful, it shouldn’t matter what/who anyone prays in order to be considered one to be shown mercy. If any God is so selfish to allow all these forms of seemingly needless violence, potentially just because they didn’t pray to the right god, or go to church enough, or pray for the right people, etc. If that’s the extent of a God’s mercy, then what a fucking self-righteous, pompous entity it is. We don’t know definitively if there is any God or not- no matter of empirical evidence exists at the moment. However, at the end of the day, you should treat everyone with in the same manner of respect and tolerance as the next. If there was a God or an afterlife, then the idea that how you treat your fellow man is NOT the criteria for judgement and instead it’s the number of times you pray to which God, then I would rather die and remain dead. If this is to be the case, then I would be in better company than any religion that believes this could ever have. elite afaik, Satan accepts you for who you are with all your faults. God punishes you for making mistakes. Hail satan AZ Satan requires of you what you can never afford. elite There is a requirement now? Think yo gotta read your bible again. Never heard of Satan doing any threatening or punishing. Have you? bgx Hell dontbeanidiot That’s a lie, God wants you to be the best you can possibly be and be his friend, satan wants to pull you to his level so he can dominate and have his way with you. elite Your name is exactly the comment i want to make. I will leave it at that Gabe no I think it’s the other way around alex Satan gives you eternity in hell. You think that’s not punishment by Satan? Vali Actually God Demands your eternal life in hell for the misguided-ness of your life. God created Satan and hell not the other way around If you believe god to be good then he had to create an evil in which to be opposite of. Keith Young U going to hell AFB1 Satan certainly accepts you. He loves company in hell. Robert Crawford Satan often allows the non believers to go through life untested. But the thing you have to bear in mind is that your sin is essentially a jail cell. Now Satan will make that jail cell all comfortable and the interesting part is the door is wide open to leave if you want. But what you need to remember is that as soon as you die that jail cell closes and the key is lost forever and Satan then takes away the luxury’s . Buddy Christ As long as their are conjugal visits. lyone The Judeo-Christian God gives all human beings Free Will. The criteria for receiving that God’s blessing has nothing to do with prayer. Rather it has to do with how one exercises one’s free will choices: to follow God’s will in regard to the treatment of others, to act morally, to feel loving kindness toward others, to refrain from self-worship, to recognize that we are not the source of what we have in life, etc. The Judeo-Christian God does not punish humans for making every mistake, only for those that cannot be rectified in this lifetime (according to the Bible): murder, and leading others to false-worship (ie: self-worship). All other mistakes are forgivable and forgiven if one turns their life around and lives a better life. Elyse he can also punish or bless generations for the sins of their forefathers, and while people may think this is unjust, this is so that there can be justice without the person having to pay for it in the afterlife. OOgle The problem here is, you’ve made an assumption that God could stop Humans from killing other Humans, and in a larger picture, that if he exists, he should make sure that everyone does what is “right”. The issue with that is the only way to do it is to completely control everyone. In essence, take away the idea of “free will”. Everyone keeps forgetting that that exists. It is YOUR choice, everyone’s choice whether of not to be violent or not, or pray or not, or any sorts of other things. God isn’t punishing those who “didn’t pray to the right God”. He just is giving humans the idea of free will. Now, the idea of Judeo-Christian-Islamic beliefs are that if you pray to God to intercede on your behalf, then he can guide YOUR actions, so that YOU will not be in a situation that will get you killed. If you pray for people in Kiev not to die, it is still up to those people over there for that to happen. For example, a doctor who believes in God may hear a calling and decide to take his talents to Kiev, then people are not dying. But don’t expect God to “possess” or control actions. That has never happened in the history of all the Holy Books. Why send Moses to Egypt when he could’ve just possessed or controlled the Pharoah and freed the Israelites? You see, that is not how it works. And you are right, “how you treat your fellow man” is the criteria for judgment after you die. It is just not the ONLY criteria. And “how many times you pray” isn’t one of them. But WHO you acknowledge as God should matter. You’ve seen the movies–Somebody disowns a child, friend, or sibling. Then said sibling becomes someone noteworthy. All of sudden, the person that disowned them comes around, talking about how proud they are of them. “That’s my son/friend/brother”. The problem with that is, you didn’t believe in me before, you just now want what I have. That isn’t going to cut it. Maybe the people who disowned them had a good reason, maybe they thought it would be better, maybe they were good people regardless, they helped others, they worked in the community, they settled with another family and were an amazing father/friend/sibling. That doesn’t change the fact that they didn’t acknowledge a person as related to them. If you want to treat people in your own designated “right” way without acknowledgement or belief that any Higher Authority created you. That’s fine. But don’t say its not fair if God doesn’t accept you into Heaven. Vali Hold on in your “holy text” didn’t God stop a father from murdering his son. Which of course the father claims god told him to do in the first place? Seems you forgot your readings a bit. lizzyA yes he did. It was a test of Obedience. A test of Loyalty. Lois Kindof like the test of loyalty for being a part of this gang…?! FollowTheSaints Man kind is good. But evil temptations and wrongdoings lurk among us. God is so great that he gives us the ability to choose. So if you choose to kill a man, God will say… alright if that is what you want… go for it… But I just want you to know that you are going against all that is pure and good… And you will suffer the consequences. (on earth: prison, guilt, hate,poverty) (After death: an eternity in hell). How does God act or create things? God favors all but he will listen to those who are willing to speak to him (prayer). He gives us many virtues such as generosity, strength, wisdom… all through life lessons. This is the only way man can learn, through overcoming great obstacles. You may be saying…. “I’ve tried praying and things never seem to happen the way I ask them to be.” God lays out a perfect plan that will teach you what is best for you. So have patience and watch God’s plan unveil itself. Practice your faith and use the great instrument of science to make your world and humanity a better place, not for hate. #GodisGreat amy fabrici Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people? New Era Bad things often occur when people make bad decisions. Those decisions can affect others. Bad things can be turned to our good if we seek to do God’s will (see D&C 122:7). By enduring our trials well, we become stronger and more understanding. Rather than ask, “Why me?” ask, “What can I learn from this?” We can turn to the Savior in any trial because He knows exactly how we feel and can help us. No one escapes suffering in this life. We all go through some pain, sadness, and adversity. God allows us to go through trials so we can be tested and have our agency. Bad things can happen to good people when people misuse their agency. Those who make poor choices hurt themselves and sometimes other people, even good people. Crime and divorce, for instance, are often the result of poor choices. But poor choices don’t cause all suffering. Difficult circumstances like disease, accidents, starvation, or natural disasters are a part of mortal life. Difficulty rains “on the just and on the unjust” (Matt. 5:45). The most important thing is to trust God and obey His will. Suffering in this life will eventually come to an end, and God’s perfect mercy, justice, and judgment will resolve all the “why’s” we wonder about now. The Lord loves us and sees the eternal view, so we can trust Him to guide our lives. He promises that our trials and difficulties can work for our good if we’re trying to live the right way (see D&C 90:24; D&C 122:7). He promises us peace that transcends the evil of the world (John 16:33). Psalms 34:19 says, “Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all.” Joseph Smith, a faithful, obedient servant of God, suffered tremendously. Yet he was able to endure his trials with God’s help and with an eternal perspective. The Lord told Joseph to remember that “thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment; and then if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high” (D&C 121:7–8). We have the same promise. President James E. Faust said, “Into every life there come the painful, despairing days of adversity and buffeting. There seems to be a full measure of anguish, sorrow, and often heartbreak for everyone, including those who earnestly seek to do right and be faithful. … For some, the refiner’s fire causes a loss of belief and faith in God, but those with eternal perspective understand that such refining is part of the perfection process” (Ensign, May 1979, 54). The pain and adversity we face in this life can be like a refiner’s fire. If we endure our trials well, we can emerge from the fire stronger and brighter. Jesus Christ was the only perfect person who ever lived on the earth, yet He was scourged, smitten, and suffered all things (see 1 Ne. 19:9). Because He suffered, we don’t have to be alone in our hard times. He understands the pain everyone goes through and offers peace, healing, and eternal blessings if we endure our trials well. Because of the healing and blessing power of the Atonement, we can see our trials as chances to learn, to grow, and, most important, to come unto Christ. To the sightless or hearing impaired, [God] sharpens the other senses. … With the loss of a dear one, He deepens the bonds of love, enriches memories, and kindles hope in a future reunion. You will discover compensatory blessings when you willingly accept the will of the Lord and exercise faith in Him” (Ensign, May 1996, 25). —Elder Richard G. Scott Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles Readers I was diagnosed with cancer at the beginning of my senior year. Now, two years later, I am cancer free. I learned more from that trial than I thought possible. The Lord gives us trials that He knows we can handle, and that will help us learn and grow. He is always there for us. Aubre Snow, Wasilla, Alaska When bad things happen to good people, it can humble them and test their strength. Job, in the Bible, had everything taken away from him, but he never turned away from God. In the end Job got everything back, but twice as much. Brian Anderson, Cary, North Carolina We can be positive that suffering has a purpose: to make you stronger or maybe even to make someone watching stronger. It could be to give you wisdom to help others along when things get bad for them. It may seem hard and quite unfair, but there is reasoning behind it. Just keep your trust in the Lord. Ashlie Dotson, Hereford, Texas When you come to understand that Heavenly Father has a purpose and a plan for you and that our Savior, Jesus Christ, can give you comfort, trials take on a different meaning. When you have faith in our Heavenly Father and His eternal plan, you can be assured that there is purpose in all that happens to us here on this earth. Josi Rust, Springfield, Oregon By watching the news we can tell how confused our world is. To understand why, we can look at Alma 14:10–11 and Alma 60:13. Both passages testify that the righteous do not perish but pass with glory unto God and that God suffers this so that His justice and judgment can fall upon the wicked. God allows evil to exist in the world, but He loves us and weeps for us. One day the Lord will answer all of our questions, revealing the purpose of all things. Joseph Novak, Kirtland, Ohio When something bad comes into our life, how we deal with it shows God the faith we have in Him and His Son, Jesus. Jared Michael Shrack, Muncie, Indiana We should learn to recognize our trials as potential blessings. The Lord allows us to face bad things to shape us into better people. We can trust Him. I know He listens to our prayers and takes care of our needs. Jerilyn P. Cales, Hong Kong, China Heavenly Father allows us to have trials so we can overcome our weaknesses and make them strengths. He wants us to come to Him and ask Him for help so He can make us better than we already are. Jenae Plymale, Jackson, Ohio Sometimes we forget that we came to earth to be tested. Job was a very righteous man who had terrible things happen to him. We can use his example to help us through our own trials. We can also be comforted to know that the Lord will help us if we keep His commandments. Joel Mowers, Sparks, Nevada AFB1 God gives everyone free will including the bad guys. We live in a “fallen world” from the beginning of time. When Adam sinned the perfect relationship with God was broken so we all suffer because of the evil that exists in the world. Even as Christians we are not immune to the laws of nature and the evil that exists. God is not a puppet that we control. He is does not put you into a bubble of protection when you are saved. We are subject to evil, disease and calamity like everyone else. The difference is we know He is control and sovereign and in the end we will be in His presence rather than eternal Hell. Vali What can a 13 year old from being set on fire while he sleeps by his so called friends!? If you can show me a shred of evidence to show that me being burned alive until a fraction of me looks normal then tell me what i could of learned besides more pain from being an outcast?—-The words of my younger brother who never hurt anyone and was still set to fire while he was sleeping at a friends. This is enough reason for me to ignore your claims but take myself, put into a bad home with worse father, beaten everday because someone couldn’t get through it without alcohol, having my crotch struck when i tried to defend myself, what could i learn, ik you will say to treat others better or to not do these things yourself, wanna know what i DID learn? people are cruel when the think they can sit down a pray once a year and receive the full blessing of your God! PAT BLAIR you need help bad sir!!!!!!! romito God already saved us once and sacraficed his son for our sins he wont interfere with our violence and ignorance we are responsible for our actions and crimes he has no action in any war we may cause and the lifes we take he will only interfere if he has a greater purpose for you in life for this kid his purpose is to spread his experiance and intent to save others by giving his testimony of the grace of god so we may be set free of our demons doctors fireman police and anyone who helps in saving a life in some way god acts thru their body in order for that person to be able to heal the other…. stop being negative about it one day you will need more of him than what u can imagine Vali God has also destroyed the world and its beings twice over. care to try again? Keith Young You r a asshole AFB1 Sad. An angry response meant to denigrate and be hurtful. No need for it. Lanster Why are you so offended by people who believe in a higher power? Yes there is death, there is violence there are third world countries suffering, and there has been turmoil since the beginning of time, but that doesn’t prove that there is no God. It only proves that there are evil entities in this world as well as good entities. People are born of sin, we all are in a constant struggle between good and evil weather you want to admit it or not. Try not to get so pissy when others speak of their beliefs. Yes there are definitely annoying christians who give the whole god thing a bad name so at times I get the hate, but lets live and let live and realize there is diversity in beliefs and for legitimate reason. I am no moron. I can tell you that much. Adam Lets give credit to the doctors. Not a made of thing. lyone And where do those doctors get the intelligence to do what they do? anon College elite anon has won the internet Enlightenment College/the university system was created by Saint Thomas Aquinas…. Who was and continues to be one of the greatest doctors and philosophers of all time. Oh and you guessed it… He was a firm believer in God. Enlightenment Not to mention this boy may have been treated at a Catholic or christian hospital…. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Interesting huh! http://www.maverickcreative.ca/ Joshua Richards If I was the richest institution in the world, built on manipulation and forcing people to pay me by threatening them with eternal damnation, I’d probably build a few hospitals too. Need the tax breaks. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Anon So naturally we attribute this success to your religion and not the medical practices themselves. Hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting huh? Take a moment to check your own argument for fallacies before you try to represent your religion because you’re doing so poorly. Don’t be stupid Just to be clear; the College/university system was unequivocally created by plato and his academy. Anyone who has told you anything different is totally and completely incorrect. Chris The first university was the University of Bologna in 1088. It is considered by every single historical scholar of any repute to be the very first university so I’m not entirely sure where you got your information. Anon Plato… Nathan Garrett Education doesn’t hold a claim by any religion. The Idea to educate others persists through all walks of life and those with and without religion. Education didn’t begin in some church somewhere, it began since humans have had the ability to pass on knowledge to others. Oh and you guessed it, way before any religion even existed. You are a fucking idiot They get an education instead of wasting there time praying to a fake being in the sky. Icarus Soryu God? No, the Doctor and whom ever it is that called the ambulance. Without that doctor he’d still be dead. Acts of man are better than acts of god. m Really? God created the entire universe. That act is the greatest act ever. Steve God just talked to me an hour ago and said that he didn’t create the entire universe. Jordan Levine Ha yea man he was on cspan telling people to stop blaming him for all this shit Kenneth James Pretty sure he told me where the lost Malaysian Airlines plane is… But I’ll never tell…… Viewer100 Doctor>universe/God Nathan Garrett really? Did you take pictures? Because obviously you were there, right? Keith Young It’s because of God people can help other people Pete Huskins Acts of kindness and good morals have absolutely nothing to do with any ficticious god or any daft religion!! yourmom daft? Religion has it’s flaws, but religion has been the pinnacle of any great civilization. The same civilizations that instituted laws, justice and ideas of good faith towards others. So, it in fact has everything to do with fictitious gods and most religions. Anon Wow… You are a really gullible person. chamby60 True …The difference between me and your God, is if I see a Child getting raped or murdered ill do my best to stop them…And your go d will do ????? Nate Send you…. santanotreal But by that argument, you are saying that if I choose not to stop someone from raping or murdering a child, God chose not to send me. Robert Crawford It’s free will…. God will put it on your heart to help someone and if you don’t then… hey but god will put it on another persons heart. Anatat Tatanatat Tell that to rape victims. Rev God’s omniscience makes our free will, and even his own free will an impossibility. If he is to know *everything* outside of the confines of space and time, it stands to reason that his knowledge includes every decision that both he and every person will ever make. If those decisions are predetermined by God’s ability to know those outcomes before they happen, there is no such thing as free will. It’s a paradox. Either God isn’t “omniscient,” or we don’t have free will. Think about it. dan God knowing the outcome doesn’t predetermine the action, he still gives you the chance to prove to yourself that will or will not have the faith to follow Nathan Garrett and so he uses people like pawns and lets children get murdered because he was “testing” someones faith? Vivian Your missing the point. God gives us all free will to do what we want. It is up to us to decide whether or not we want to believe in him and practice his teachings. If someone decides right not to go off and kill 50 people, that person can make that decision because they have the free will to do what they wish. However, that does not mean that God allowed those 50 people to get murdered. There are so many evil acts in this world rape, murder, sex trafficking etc those things are not from God. Satan is real and is constantly seeking to destroy lives which is why we have so much hurt and pain here on earth. Because God gives us free will its up to us to decide whether we are going to put him first and have a better life because of that. Imagine if everyone on earth chose to give their life to God and follow his teachings. There would be no violence, murder, thieves etc. However the world is not like that, people choose not to believe and succumb to the lies of Satan leading to children getting murdered. nogod Vivian, if your god gives you free will, then why does he punish you if you choose not to follow him. Christianity didn’t become a major religion by the quality of its truth but by the quantity of its violence. Shogun Wouldn’t you punish your child for not following your teachings? You gave your child life, loved them and cared for them and let them be free. But then they turn around and say they hate you. Thats gotta be devastating. We can never understand the mind of and infinite and omniscient being, just as we cannot understand the mind of another person. Thats why its such a mystery to everyone. I know its a “cop out” kind of answer but thats what it says. It is also said, that God does forgive people through love despite the wrong doings we commit. If you recognize your sins you will be forgiven, or something like that. Brian A major difference is that I, as a human parent, lack the ability to create offspring that isn’t capable of sin. An omnipotent god would have the ability to create humans incapable of sin but still possessing free will. Red Rover But according to your bible that would be a paradox, because according to your bible humans are pretty much evil and weak. So tell me if your god didn’t want sin but allowed free will knowing humans will just commit sin, then why would he create hell for his children? God couldn’t create a human incapable of sin and if he did then that would mean even god couldn’t get him to sin even if he needed him to as part of his plan, but then both of those result in him not being able to do something. Thus raising the question “Is god really omnipotent, if he even is real?” Brian It’s not “my” bible, I’m not religious in the slightest. jones mcmotherfucker I swear some of you jesus fuckers remind me of dothraki. it’s known kahlessie wgood What did GOD do? He created us to stop people who do this kinda of shit. Most people like you GOD haters would rather sit and do nothing and complain about it LordGrizz We don’t need to believe in god to stop people from committing crimes. Fact is their are so many holes in the christian faith it’s sickening because when an intelligent person points that out we get a cookie cutter answer like god works mysteriously blah blah Zmralston Fact (look it up if you want) : more people commit murder, rape, and genocide in the name of god than atheists. Mark 2112 Stalin, Mao Zedong, all Communistic, Godless rulers. fact Dan Bennett Normally I wouldnt waste my breathe here, but you sir are a completed idiot. To all those saying it was God who helped the boy, do you also believe it is Santa that brings presents to your house? The concept of a God is not a new idea, but if you honestly believe the Christian God is the one true god you are all fools. Religion has never been about doing the correct thing, it is a way for a select few to raise themselves into positions of power. Look at the things done in the name of your God, genocides, rapes, wars. And that is all within the last century. If God is real, he has long since abandoned us, due to his disgust of the atrocities we commit in “Service” to him. Catholicism is literally a religion where you pay to get into heaven. If I kill someone, the priest will tell me to go say thirty hail mary’s and boom I can go to heaven again. This is just shit, and false and not fucking true, there is no way to buy into heaven, since it is a made up place. Religion is just another tool, that is used to keep the masses in fucking line. Mark you say that Stalin and Mao where both Godless rulers, but I simply respond with the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Hunts, the Denial of the Holocaust by the Vatican. Let’s not even mention that all of the fighting and death and destruction in the Gaza Strip right now is simply happening because three groups that believe in the SAME GOD, cant agree on whether or not the New Testament is true, or whether it is the Quaran, or whether we are still waiting for God’s Messiah. Essentially religion is for those among us who cant do the right thing without an invisible parent figure saying “if you do, I will punish you forever” Mark 2112 what defines good and evil? Mark 2112 no man speaks for what i believe……you’re jumped painting with a broad brush. Red Rover God haters? No one hates your god they just find the religion questionable or wrong. Those who don’t believe actually or question do more than people of the faith because unlike you folks we realize that things won’t get done if we sit around believing a magic man will take care of everything for us. Your god created all life apparently so he even created those who commit evil. He didn’t even stop the man with the gun he let it happen, being omnipresent, omniscience, and all powerful he should have known how to stop this without violating anyone’s free will. http://www.youtube.com/fuckyoubitch fukboiswagdicksinyamouth Yes. Your children. Not things you created, gave a book of your ‘teachings’ and disappeared before ever proving your existence to them. its hard for me to believe in something that has never shown itself to me.. especially if it WANTS me to believe in it. that doesn’t make sense to me Red Rover You wouldn’t send your kid to eternal torture for sleeping with another male or female would you? A parent spanks their kid or send them to time out not to their sworn enemy to being ripped apart or burn forever. We can actually come to understand another person’s mind through X-rays and actually having empathy rather than relying on an over bearing god. It is a cop out answer just like the other paradoxes this god is hidden behind. God only forgives a certain amount of times from what I was taught and if not then what relevance does hell have? Vivian What do you mean by punishment!? Look around at the world around you and what do you see. Murder, starvation, greed, evil, violence. When we choose not to follow God he does not have to punish us we inevitably bring that upon ourselves. When we choose to make ourselves first and to believe that there is no God, we make poor decisions because we are sinners. By nature we are insecure, prideful, jealous, etc.. so we make decisions based on our own sinful judgement which is why the world we live in today is full of sin. Red Rover Yet when people followed god they murdered people they suspected of being witches, gay, non virgin brides, adulterers, etc. because the bible told them to do so. Funny also how you can see such things and not wonder what your god is actually doing about it rather you blame it on man, man who was created by god. If god didn’t want us to sin yet enabling us to have free will causes us to sin, then why would such a loving god allow sin? Your god has apparently foreseen everything yet still sits back and just lets it happen as a part of his plan. When the world was mostly Christianity it was evil and without still the same as it’s always been but actually more freedom and happiness. People weren’t happy when the church had power, they were terrified and miserable. Mars Because man puts laws on himself to suffer. Red Rover Man puts laws on himself for true justice rather than a pit of fire for all eternity. Nathan Garrett This was also the excuse for the christians to commit genocide back in the crusades. They thought they were cleansing the earth from evil and “satan”. I love how the term satan is so subjective that each individual can use it to describe the things they don’t like. Can you give me a universally agreed upon thing that would be described as “satan” or “evil”? Because I’m sure there are others who would think differently. I’m not missing any points here, The kids’ friend shot him because he was desperate and deranged, and the other kid survived thanks to modern medicine and good timing. Is there some point at the chance ratio to you that something stops being a lucky strike and becomes a miracle? “Oh the chances of that happening are 10,000 to 1, MUST be a miricle” I guess all lottery winners and people that win American Idol are considered products of a miracle then. OR they were the product of chance, because statistics says that even though there is a 1 in a million chance for something happening, that 1 thing will happen sooner or later. Without the need for a god. It all comes down to peoples’ understanding of how the world works. You don’t understand therefore “god did it”. Vivian I feel again like you are missing the point that I was trying to make. I know all about statistics and science. Science, believe it or not can not explain everything. Not everything is backed up by science. Science is absolutely amazing and I am not discrediting it in anyway, but there are things of this world that science just can not explain. I do understand the way the world works, my choice to believe and worship God does not make me ignorant of the world around me. I am knowledgeable on both science and my faith in God. Maybe before you hold an argument with someone over religion, you do your research and actually read the bible so that you can understand the point I am trying to make. If the so called “Christians” who murdered the many people back in the Crusades, actually followed the teachings of the Bible they would not have killed. I feel like so many people have a negative view of religion in todays society because of past history. In reality many people who claim to be disciples of God, use the teachings of the bible in vain to increase their own power. Chuuk The issue is that people continue to murder everyday in the name of god or the coming of your messiah. I have been given free will because of man’s ability to adapt and evolve. I respect each person’s choice and if you want to believe on god that is part of free will. The issue is people being ignorant and hating on one another. Thus, let’s show love and evolve to better humans who do not abuse one another because it is the right thing to do. Leave god and personal opinion out of it to ignore arguments though. Audrea Telck Griggs Vivian—your “throwing your pearls before swine” his ears are closed, he doesn’t get it…no matter what you say. Red Rover So just because he sees things differently you make a reference to him being a pig? Mature, very mature. Red Rover People have a negative view know how untrue the bible is and dislike those who try to modernize it by ignoring verses and picking and choosing. The bible was written in the olden days and is taken literally by atheists and agnostics who have read over it again and again to make sure they understand everything and after that they continue to see it as a child’s story book. The people in the Crusades followed the bible and held it very dear. Numbers 15:32-36 “When the Israelites were in the wilderness they found a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to the whole community. They put him in custody, because there was no clear instruction about what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; the whole community must stone him with stones outside the camp.” So the whole community took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, just as the LORD commanded Moses.” Numbers 31:17-18 “Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.” Ezekiel 9:6 “Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.” Isaiah 13:16 “Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.” Deuteronomy 13:15 “…you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, [a] both its people and its livestock.” Leviticus 20:9 “If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.” Exodus 32:27 “Then he said to them, ‘This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’ ” Deuteronomy 21:9 “you will purge from yourselves the guilt of shedding innocent blood, since you have done what is right in the eyes of the LORD.” Exodus 31:15 “Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.” Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.” These are from the old testament, the bible. All Christianity is nowadays is an attempt to outshine one another to prove who can act better than one another. True Christianity isn’t a modern thing for it doesn’t just require you believing in the existence of God, it requires that you live by how the book says exactly, no twists, no turns. Dan Bennett There is nothing in this world that Science can not explain. There may be things in this world that our current understanding of science cant explain but as we learn more we start to realize that everything has a perfectly reasonable scientific explanation. These so called “Christians” are the ones that brought your religion to the point where it is today. You can sit there and claim that they arent true Christians but the point of the matter is that you are defined by the actions of your forefathers and your history. Christians are a fanatical bunch that do not focus on letting others have their own opinions. They will either try to convert you using scare methods (you are going to hell unless…) or they simply wage war on anyone who doesnt believe them. Hell I mean look at the second world war. Hitler is killing Jews, thousands by the day, and what does the Pope do? Nothing he turns a blind eye. There is your Christianity, there is your god. Red Rover You sir, have my respect. not telling actually lets assume nathan is in fact missing the point, by that logic you are admitting that god is useless and could care less that children die every day, assuming this all powerful , all useless being you so believe in exists, you admit he is by definition a useless evil being.. so why again is god all about love? Does he just love the priveleged and hate the poor? sounds like the god of the middle class to me Sanity Prevails Sounds more like the “god” of the republican party – not just the middle class. Daz If Satan is the anti-Christ, why does he do God’s work by punishing the evil people? Red Rover That’s a good question. Red Rover If you read your bible you’d realize if everyone gave their life to god it’d be just like the salem witch trials and the catholic church when it would torture people. The bible says to kill your bride to be if she isn’t a virgin, to kill gays and people you believe are witches, and to not bring your bastard children (children born out of wedlock aka marriage) to his commune. In other words there would still be violence, murder, and segregation and that’s just to name a couple of commonly over looked bible verses. You fail to realize how your God places the blame on an enemy, who, through his omniscience knows when he plans to do something and how he is going to go about it yet never stops him, rather lets him run free to spread evil. If your God truly loved you and wanted you to be free of evil he would not only have placed the tree of knowledge far away from the garden of eden, which is blamed as the fall of man into sin, he’d have also permanently imprisoned the devil to prevent further evils. readtheBIBLEknowtheFACTS The devil also has people convinced that raping and killin people is what they should do. Just because God knows all does not mean it is a perfect world. Read the bible, lucifer fell from heaven. Adam ate the apple. And now were here and until the revelations all happen and God takes his believers home it wont be perfect anywhere. Jess Ok, readtheBIBLEknowtheFACTS, since know the facts and bible so well how come you fail to realize that the bible does not state that the forbidden fruit is an apple? imlippy they got that mixed up with snow white again. lol barney rubble Nathan, was it God or a person who does the sin? You can’t blame God for what a person does. That person is the one who is the guilty one because he didn’t use his free will in a God-like manner. Nathan Garrett You mistake the comment. Since I don’t believe in deities, they don’t play a role in my logic or decision making. The responsibility is solely on the person who makes the decision. There is no god in the equation at all. I’m not blaming “god” for anything, because he doesn’t exist in the first place. Philosophy 101 Exactly as you said “deities don’t play a role in your logic,” thus, the debate between you and the people of faith in this discussion will lead to nothing because faith and logic are of two completely opposite extremes. It is as if I ask you for a debate later in the day and you speak with guns, whilst I speak with scripture. Is there fairness in this debate, I think not. Yet, one is entitled to their opinion and I do enjoy seeing such a riveting debate on a topic such as such as this. conflict Can you prove God does not exist? empirically? Nathan Garrett Yeah, by your inability to prove anything at all. People like you bring an argument to the table, don’t supply any sort of evidence, then expect people like me to do the evidence gathering for you. Lazy if you ask me. But hey, by your logic, I could say that there is a teapot orbiting Jupiter, but you can’t disprove it, so therefore it must be true. I could say Star Wars is real, and you cannot disprove it, therefore it must be true. See, this is what little kids do to make their imaginary friends seem real to them. They make up, or believe a story as if it were real, then tell everybody that these magical figures and lands exist. Then when someone questions them, they say stuff like, “Well YOU’VE never been to Narnia so you can’t say it’s not real!” Try actually going through the trouble of formulating an actual argument next time, like those “evil” scientists do on a regular basis. conflict Just asking a question, guy. People like you, who can’t answer a simple question with an intelligent response, who can only use shallow blanket responses are comical. lawl. I can prove many a thing, from a math equation to code proof of concept. Can I prove everything? no, can I believe in the existence of something of which I yet have no empirical proof? sure, we do it every day. But hey, way to be a dbag about it. Nathan Garrett That’s certainly an interesting way to admit you asked a stupid question. Just vilify me instead of manning up and learning from it. Bruce Hamill Well said Anthony Edwards Can you prove your God does exist? Empirically? Can you prove an invisible magic teapot doesn’t exist? Empirically? Do you assume it exists just because you cannot prove it? Mark 2112 yes, i can prove God exists. everything beautiful in this world is his creation….from the sun that rises to the smile on my children’s face. Anthony Edwards The sun doesn’t rise. The planet Earth circles the sun, giving the illusion that it rises. The smile on your child’s face is proof of a smile on your child’s face. You’re really on shaky ground with this ‘proof’ stuff aren’t you? Or is everything proof of anything to you? “A beetle poops, therefore God.” “Toilet paper is downy soft, therefore space-travel is possible.” “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” Yeah, just go on making loose connections to things because they make you comfortable, but don’t call them ‘proof’ because you don’t know what proof is. Mark 2112 so lets ponder this for a moment….everything in the universe just happened by chance. all the intricacies from a cellular level to another planet just happened by chance….with that ‘logic’ believing in God seems a heck of a lot more plausible than what you believe. shaky ground? nope…..i just refuse to believe (nor am I as arrogant / ignorant as you) that we have all the answers. Dan Bennett Honestly, hardcore religious Zealots remind me of the guy from Ancient Aliens… You know Gorgio Tsckoulous (or however it is spelt). The guy who is like, “I dont have an answer therefore it is Aliens”. That is the common Christian for you “I dont know therefore God” Red Rover God is responsible for everything since he apparently created it. He claims everyone is his child therefore he must take full responsibility for what his children do especially considering he’s apparently all knowing and can foresee everything before it happens while bearing omnipotence. Your god blames free will and Satan, but never apparently mentions omniscience unless it gains praise. An omniscient god would know these plans and a way to stop them before any pain and suffering occurs without violating free will. If he had used his free will in a god-like manner he’d demand praise and all the glory while not taking responsibility for his good and bad actions and inaction. Red Rover Wow, that sounds truly sick when you think about it. Red Rover But if you go against what he knew you would do then he wouldn’t know you would do that. again a paradox. Graviola And if God is omnipresent, if God created the universe, the universe is made of God, hence I am God, hence whatever I decide to do is a decision made by God, and I get to make the rules. I choose not to punish myself for anything, simply to learn from and enjoy experience. Brian Sleider I have seen the Predator like 100 times I know the whole movie start to finish. Does that mean I am able to change it so the Predator wins in the end? NO. Knowing the end is not the same as changing it. Dan Bennett Are you God? Do you claim to have the power to will things in and out of existence? Do you claim to have the power to create something from nothing (a scientific impossibility by the way)? Then you are right, knowing the end is different than changing it. But to an all powerful God, who is supposed to care for us, it should be a cake walk. Like I said earlier, God either doesnt exist, or has abandoned us. Probably the first option Brian Sleider God is an asshole, but he hasnt abandoned us. Red Rover Someone’s thinking outside the box. Nathan Garrett how convenient eh? Just keep making full circles back to god so that you can say that everything is by god. Oh and where is god during those crimes that happen anyway where people are tortured, raped, and murdered? God seemed to be a little lax on putting a helping hand in the hearts of people then. Just face it already, the thanks goes solely to the people who helped the kid, and the kid’s strong will to survive. No god here Nicole God gave us free will. he is not to interfere with that. However, our guardians can and will interfere with our daily lives accordingly. Nathan Garrett Really? Did you talk to him? Riley Parsons Hey man move to Canada where Christianity is slowly dieing out in 50 years it will be almost completely non existent out here i can’t remember the last time i met someone who believes in god that isnt above 25! same story in many areas in the world! Can’t wait!! Nathan Garrett Me either, but I’d rather stay in this country because I feel it’s my obligation to defend it against zealous, uneducated morons who don’t ever think to look in another book besides the bible for answers to the mysteries of our universe. Ignorance is bliss to some people, but to an observer, purposeful ignorance is simply stupidity. rando thought IMO there is absolutely no denying the existence of a unifying “universe force” aka God. Its existence is far above my comprehension to explain its purpose but I can feel its presence. Nathan Garrett Well, I as well as many others deny this “god” you speak of. which makes it entirely possible to deny ignorance and replace it with knowledge… which is considered evil in the eyes of the virus of religion. Dan Bennett The unifying universal force that you are alluding to are the laws of physics. They arent supernatural, they have nothing to do with a deity and they are scientific, not religious. Instead of the Bible, why dont you try picking up a science text book and preaching that… Maybe your children wont be as stupid as you. thejevans In order for this to be the case, you must assume there is such thing as “the supernatural” (which there is no evidence for), then you must assume there is a god that created the cosmos (which there is no evidence for), then assume the god created the cosmos so that one species on one planet in one solar system in one galaxy would thrive and worship him/her/it (which there is no evidence for), and finally assume that god is the specific one you chose to worship based on your interpretations of translations of ancient writings (which there is no evidence for). After you’ve shown solid evidence of all of that, because the burden is on the one making the supernatural claim, then you must show that we have free will in the way that most people think we do (which we don’t have evidence for). Then you must show that your god gave us the ability to have that free will. Then you must explain why he cannot interfere with what he has made. Forgive me if I find this hard to swallow and pretty much laughable. Anthony I appreciate where you are coming from. Where is the proof for all of this? Not in mathematical, scientific, empirical or quantifiable terms. There are many accounts throughout history of things considered “miraculous”, inferring that a divine and omnipotent being intervened in the natural order of the cosmos. But this is not the best context for finding God, if one were honestly looking for Him. Can you prove that love exists? Or joy, or the distinction of good or bad, or anything that is beyond what the senses can experience? We certainly can’t deny them. You can say they come from science, physics, chance or just nature. I’m sure you wouldn’t argue that there must be some complex design to so many things in the cosmos, that life and existence are sustained. There has to be something that all these things point to as an origin. It can’t be Chaos, because logically chaos doesn’t bring order. If all things have some good by nature but are clearly flawed or limited, there must be one perfect and eternal God which lesser things come from and point to. In regards to free will or the problem of so much evil that occurs everyday. If God restricted us or the laws of nature and ensured that only good things happen, freedom wouldn’t exist…we’d be puppets. God gives us life and the freedom to choose how to live, out of personal love for His creation. Lastly, God is in everything whether we like it or not, but He is beyond and beneath human constructs or proofs. Unfortunately, faith or some genuine receptivity is required for this relationship. If I didn’t know Him but was looking for Him, anything having to with Love is a good place to start. Dan Bennett Love is the release of hormones in the brain, as is joy and happiness. Good and bad depend on your own personal stance and view point and are not quantifiable, however there are a few things that we agree upon as a society as being bad or good; murder for example is considered to be bad as a whole, and love is considered good. The senses that you are referencing are the five senses, which have been discovered to be the corner stone for many more senses which we have just discovered, such as the sense of time. You mention all this chaos, and claim that God must exist to balance this Chaos, but all you have done is agree with me that there is no god and that the laws of physics are what you are talking about. Newton’s First Law, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Chaos as you call it, must have order. That is how Physics works. Matter/Antimatter. Jump/Gravity. There are explanations to the world, simply because we do not understand it, doesnt mean we should dump all of our eggs into the God basket. Shane You’re really trying hard to argue. Let it go. We forgive you. Nathan Garrett Fuck you coward Brian Sleider AHHH the maturity. Your argument of “Fuck you coward” is air tight. You sure showed them.(showed them that you cannot conduct yourself in a grown up discussion) Nathan Garrett When someone takes the condescending approach of “We forgive you ” as if this fucking prick has the right to speak for everyone on this forum, then I respond with “fuck you”. That’s the problem with religiotards is that they assume that they are high and mighty and that I am seeking their forgiveness. I still stick by what I said and Shane can go fuck himself because he’s to cowardly to retort to my initial argument. ShyFountain6234 Now, Nathan, your argument has dropped from logical to personal. This wont help people leave you alone. Sorry Sir. And really, “Religiotards”? Dan Bennett Unless you are arguing how God is an impossibility and how religion is flawed and crippling society, then you really cant claim to be arguing logic when talking about God. God is the most unlogical thing ever. Just a being floating around in some sort of alternate dimension, with no start, no end and no real purpose. Seems logical to me. Snuzer Just because bad things happen does not mean God takes delight in our suffering. Everything is certainly not by God, its by man. I hate to mention free will again, but thats what he gives us and you don’t seem to understand that. It was your choice to post that comment, as it was mine to respond. It was also that kids choice to try and kill his friend, not that it was a good one. Im not trying to shove religion down your throat, but simply presenting an opposite opinion. And its your choice to not believe and I’m not saying you’re wrong or right. Mike The argument of the problem of evil is emotional and not so logical. Perhaps that’s why it is so effective; the world is emotionally driven. The argument defines God’s goodness as a kind of sentimentality and refuses the idea that God could have higher purpose for suffering in the world. In no way does it somehow disprove God’s existence. Also, pitting humans helping the world against faith in God is not really dilemma since true faith should result in good works according to the bible. In that way the humanist and the Christian should be side by side. Brian Sleider You can lead a horse to water. Bhel Mnarg when after the child is raped or murder boy that some god. you’ve better luck believing in superman or batman. Dan Bennett I personally believe that the Batman is more realistic than God. A multi-billionaire deciding he is done letting the police handle crime and is going to take it into his own hands, using an array of highly expensive and top of the line gadgets is way more believable than a God who created an expansive universe with only one planet with a singular intelligent life, who’s sole purpose is to believe in him, because he is insecure or whatever. not telling aweful convenient way of admitting you woulden’t have the backbone to help save someone unless you thought god sent you, If you are that evil just tell the truth and post a comment saying that you could give 2 shits couse you feel you are more important than others. Red Rover Free will? The same free will this god punishes you for? The same free will that is treated like evil? See I find it funny how Christians never hold the all knowing, all powerful, omnipresent deity they worship responsible for things he could prevent without violating free will, like stopping the movement of the bullets before they hit the man. You figured an all knowing god would of course know how to save a man without him having to go through pain and violating free will, also without having to use someone else do it and give him the credit. not telling exactly, see the religious are really just the evil people of the world, they need their beliefs to make them feel better for being useless evil people, so they can say jesus forgave me along time ago for raping that child or murdering that pregnant woman, “i did my time and i found jesus now you must forgive me too”. kind of convenient huh! It is alot easier to claim you are a good person when all you have to do is go to church and claim christian or whatever to be labeled as such, couse you cant be bothered to just say “i would do something” you have to say ” god has to send me first otherwise ill just stand by and watch” barney rubble you are a peice of shit, a horrible person and probably a closed pedophile hiding behind you veil of evil beliefs, do the rest of us a service and kill your self Brian Sleider Or you know YOU choose to not help, you know FREE WILL and all. Mars God is universe. You are one part of the universe. Laws of nature rule you. Consciousness is your awareness. You can choose to be aware or not. Dan Bennett God is made up. The universe is the universe and it is governed by the laws of physics, not Christianity. Pull your head out of your ass Ivoblack He picks and chooses who He saves? Cuz quite a few kids get raped daily barney rubble Iblowblacks, God gave man free will. It is not him who commits the sin. If he were to stop sin, mankind would cease to exist. Your only task in life is to love your fellow man the way Jesus did. He died for his fellow man, would you? squatty he gave you the will to lick my choad Brian Sleider How mature. You must be doing very well in 5th grade. squatty what’s more mature: choad-licking or believing in santa clause? conflict chode* Red Rover So acting like a child proves your point how? Really all people are seeing is that squatty has a chode, which by the way is a very short, fat penis, a thing that isn’t really looked very highly upon by women. squatty you mom likes it. and she sleeps on my taint. Johnny Le If god gave man free will and didn’t commit the sin, then we shouldn’t give him the credit of saving that kid’s life either. It was the doctor’s free will that saved that kid. renemojeske read your bible (Johnny Le) It was us that committed the sin so he DIED for OUR sins….God gave the Dr the ability to save this young man… but thats belief and my opinion… Johnny Le If God gave the Dr the ability to save this young man, did God give the other guy the gun to shoot? The problem with you guys is that if it’s good, then it’s god doing. If it’s bad, it’s the devil. How convenience. When will the free will come in? Just for routine stuff like eating and taking a bath? As a man and someone with free will, I take the responsibility for myself for both the good and the bad I do in life, and I think everyone should as well. At the end of the day, it’s our own life. Learn to make good decisions and pay for our own sins. Christopher Lapping God gave the doctor the talents do do his job. Not everyone can do what he does. Anyone can pick up a gun and shoot somebody. The kid chose to pull that trigger and this doctor chose to treat the patient. Neither one had to do it and God forced neither of the two. He simply gave them the option to choose. When we thank God for saving this boy, it’s not that we are thanking him for plugging the wounds with his own two fingers. We are thanking him for giving the doctor the skills needed for the job. Likewise we are thanking the doctor for choosing to use his skills to save this boy’s life. Red Rover Ok as someone who has shot a gun before I’ll tell you right now it actually takes some skill not just picking it up and pulling the trigger. You have to know the right stance to keep from being thrown back by the shotgun, how to hold it to prevent it from slamming into your shoulder from the recoil, how to aim it to hit what you’re aiming for, how to properly load the weapon, how to clean the weapon so it will shoot without jamming, etc. You assumed that the doctor was the only one with skill and already made a fault, but to not hold your all powerful god accountable you made the same mistake the rest of these folks made. You blame it on free will or satan, but never the god who could have stopped both to protect lives before they even began the course to cause harm. This God is one to hold the benefits, but never reap the consequences. A god who claims to be pure good, but never stops suffering just places the blame and claims the glory. Thank the man/woman who studied hard in college, then worked hard at his/her job with rigorous dedication to not give up on the man, not the god who did, in reality, nothing. graviola Did god give the gunsmith the talents to do his job as well? Oh wait, I guess that was Satan, because, Jesus. Tannysha Yearby A simplified example of God’s laws vs. the consequences of breaking his laws: At a four way stop if four cars arrive at the stop, the law says you yield in the order of who got there first. If we follow the law, we typically don’t have an issue. But if someone breaks the law and crashes into another driver, who is responsible, the law maker or the ones who broke the law. Another dimension is that sometimes God will move the cars,sometimes he will let the crash happen and save the people, and some times, he allows the death. We think he should always respond the same way, but he sees more than we do. There are laws that he respects, like if you don’t choose to be protected by him, he can’t force all of his blessings on you. Perhaps the crash would improve the perspective and lives of the people involved. His thoughts are higher than ours. You may not understand but it would be arrogant for you to think that God would do things just like you think he should. Our shores are very limited. I dint have all of the answers but you don’t either Tyler The devil taunts this world in many ways, it is a battle between God and Lucifer. Pick up a bible and read history, than your questions will be answered. You should really get into the Bible before you make erroneous comments about the man who sent his son to die for YOUR sins. Choose the right side and follow Christ. God Bless. conflict How can the son of God die? God by definition is infallible, permanent, invulnerable,etc. The entire concept of God having a son was invented and put into the bible after the Bible was sent down. More inventions by the council of nicea, like the trinity. The original bible no longer exists. malek Amen brother to renomojeske. In the bible book of acts ch2 v22 says a MAN approved by God by wonders and miracles. If u read the qur’an it says the same thing. Jesus was nothing more than a prophet of God like Noah like Abraham like Moses. Allah (God) was never a child of anyone he’s the almighty creator. If he begets a child than that’s ungodly. Allah says in the qur’an ” woe to them who say Jesus the messiah son of marry is my son for them they will never enter paradise. Jesus is the same like Adam God created Adam from clay he said be and he became. Same way about Jesus (p.b.U.h.) Red Rover What about man who isn’t approved by god like atheists, agnostics, or believers of different faiths who perform great acts? People who your god would deny since they “deny” him wouldn’t be able to commit great acts they would just sit there incapable of thinking beyond such a state. In the bible it says that Jesus was the son of God not merely his prophet. He bred Jesus as a sacrificial lamb in some kind of twisted game to do something he as the all powerful one could have done himself. evie Did this seriously turn into a completely different conversation? -_- some of u dont like the fact he mentions God… why do u care! U have ur own beliefs… we have our own as well… idiots. Let it go already. This is about the kids story! Smh. timo One thing missing to most comments thus far: LOVE. huh? Huh. ahhh! Think about that. Jonathan Ranard He wasnt technically the son of god. He was a part of god that came in human form. Also, his physical body dies, but his spirit did not. That is why he rose on the third day. It proves he was god, because he defeated death. conflict Technicalities in religion? what? Red Rover He actually proves a point. In the bible they blame the devil and man but never the all knowing god who foreseen these events and never cared to spare people pain, but rather play like he/she saved the person’s life even though it was the actual work and commitment of a man/woman who, in this case, didn’t give up on this young man. It didn’t take god it took empathy, compassion, and dedication. The doctor studied hard to gain the intelligence to have saved the man’s life, it wasn’t just handed to him. He/she worked hard day and night to be able to save lives and achieved that through an education, through knowledge, the very thing the bible blames for man’s sin and banishment from the Garden of Eden. Nowadays Christians say god allowed this knowledge is god’s gift, so by saying that they fail to realize they are saying god is giving away sin like his weaker counterpart who, for some reason, he never stops despite the suffering he puts his children through. If people actually thought about it and stuck to the bible rather than twisting and ignoring sections of the bible and god to remain relevant to modern day society, they would realize the faults and fictitious tales in the book. Hamid Empathy and compassion are gods qualities bestowed upon us through all the spiritual and physical teachings through books they read that were passed down through you. Something called inheritance. This knowledge of yours has been given by something greater than the physical reality that you think teaches you in real time. This knowledge was passed down through revelations. scott Johnny did u miss the part where someone picked him up and no one was there. That was God. Stop being ignorant. GOD doesnt cater to people. Read before you speak you sound stupid. Johnny Le Not everything you can’t see or can’t explain is the hand of god. Being a good person is important. If going to church daily or weekly makes you a better person, then go ahead, but if you go to church, and still call people stupid and ignorant in a civilized conversation, I say it’s not working. You should probably go to school instead. Red Rover Sir, you are just awesome. Bonita Love Our will is what leads things like this to Happen. So it shouldn’t be our will. Bonita Love What defines good. If God doesnt exist or isn’t important then anything is permissable. Many people join gangs to have a means of income. So if the young man was doing it to have a means of income or for any other matter it should be ok. Because he needed that opportunity to provide for himself. God is good. he does nothing to harm us. Men hurt each other. This was not in God’s plan but he turned it around and we are able to see that even though someone acted out of pure evil we see on the other spectrum two good samaritans that not inly made a way for this man to be alive. matt Johnny Le, the problem is not with us guys “if its good, then is god doing. If its bad, its the devil.” Its the way people think the way we veiw things. When instead of trying attack us for the way you think we think, take the time to learn something new. We only do bad things because it is the devil tempting us to do so. We all have free will. That means GOD nor the DEVIL can force us to do anythingwe don’t want to. They give us a choice. We can either choose to do something good or do something bad. As people we all have the tendecy to do bad because its easier than doing something good. Im not here to belittle you, I’m simply informing you on information that needs to be knownby everyone. Its people like you who think we are all the same and different from everyone else. WHEN WE ARE NOT. We sin just as much as the next guy but, we have opend our hearts and minds to know that we cant do anything on our own. Yes there are some religious people out there who think the way you said. But that’s just their way of interperting what was written to us. And if you think buy saying you can pay for your own sins. Im sorry to tell you, but a debt like that is impossible to pay for. Like what renemojeske said “God gave his only son to pay for our sins” a debt that no man can bear on his own. Without forgiveness and love, we are all destined for eternity of pain and suffering. matt And also I’m not forcing you to believe what I do. But again just understand that even we sin and fall ok. Yes being good is a good thing and doing good is a good thing. But if you just want people to know you for the good you do, that means you just as bad as everyone else. And going to church weekly doesn’t automatically make you a better person. A lot of my school friends who know me think I’m a good person but in truth I’m not. I know I’m way worse than they are and I explain that to them. But again I’ve opened my heart and mind and understand what I do. And going to church and calling people stupid and ignorant in civilized conversation for what? Because if that has happened to you from a friend or someone. They just think they are better than you and not telling you the whole truth. And in the end, your “good deeds” don’t determine how good and great you are because your sins are weighed as double against everything else. And the strongest thing we have is FAITH AND FAITH ALONE. This was your free will to comment and mine to reply. I replied to fight to bring truth and bring knowledge to those who are unable to those who choose to suppress it. And in church we learn about truth and sin. And the laws GOD gave us. We don’t go to learn how to be better people. We go to receive the grace of GOD and his love and mercy. With the knowledge of the understanding of sin and GOD’s love. We know that we are loved and forgiven. We know that we sin and we know it’s wrong but as humans we are all tempted to do so. So by understanding GOD and has grace and having FAITH in him, we are saved. We all know what is right and what is wrong. Yes GOD is good and the DEVIL is bad. But our free will is what makes us choose between right and wrong. So please don’t being ignorant just because someone else was ignorant to you. Like it was said, it’s your free will. The decision is yours, I’ve made mine and I understand if your decision is not mine and I’m not here to force you to have mine…. And that’s why we pray “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, YOUR WILL BE DONE, ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, for thine is the kingdom and the power and glory for ever”. Red Rover You ever think about how he was numb from adrenaline and having his muscles contract out of instinct in an attempt to survive? Of course you didn’t you believe a god who tells you he is good yet all knowing is good just because of a book that he apparently speaks through. You shouldn’t say someone sounds stupid when you yourself didn’t think before you commented relying on one little event that could easily be explained, yet you decided just because he said it felt like hands that it was your god. How do you know it was even your god, if gods were real? It could have been Allah, Buddha, Anubis, Zeus, Pluto, or Odin instead of your god. Its funny how you say God (by the way one of his real names is Yahweh) doesn’t cater to people, yet he practically promises he will if you bow to him, promising good fortune, happiness, and a life of fulfillment. Jonathan Ranard Actually, in the new testament jesus says for his followers to exspect the opposite. He says that the world hated him first so they will hate his followers. He tells them to e xspect scorn, and mocking, and persecution. What he promisses is that god will support you and anything is possible with god. So long as you choose to follow his word. He never promisses an easy life. But the ability to handle the hardships of life with a calmness that comes with knowing that god loves you and supports you Bonita Love Mans will is evil. So if it had been the doctors free will once thw person arrived at the hospital pronounced dead. There was nothing else to do according to medicine and science. According to medicine death is irreversible. Karin Michelle Goodman Freewill does not exist. Everything a person is influenced by things they may not even remember that they are influenced by Ivoblack Real mature…guess God made you do that TaoScotty If it’s “God Plan,” then there really is no free will, correct? historymaka Picture it more like God looking at everything like a movie real, He is outside of time, we have free will. God has a plan and He knows what decision we will make in any situation. So knowing what decisions we make He will orchestrate our decisions so that His plan is complete. He gives us free will, we can choose Him or we can deny Him. And He is the ultimate true judge and what ever we do, we should do so to glorify Him, because where would we be without Him. sukTHEfac Lol I love how the story changes to conveniently fit the narrative. Whenever a logical question that questions the existence, the story is molded to make sense to the story teller. It’s fiction, so you can change it in any way you want to make sense. It’s akin to being a child and playing cops and robbers with your friends: “I shot you you’re dead!” “Nuh uh I have a mega force shield that deflects all bullets” “Yeah well I have ultra mega bullets that counters any shield” Most justifications make sense, but most are impractical. Red Rover Even if that were true then why does he punish you for your sins? Like really? That’s like saying to your kid “Hey I’m going to go let you play outside, but if you go into the Flanders’ yard I will hang you with toxic, salt and lemon juice covered razor and barbwire noose.” Its sick and sadistic. To such an all knowing god he’d understand both persons and punish neither. If he stopped sin people would still be here they would actually be just fine, but just as he would want them dumb and blind. Didn’t you ever find it convenient that the bible says the tree of knowledge was the only forbidden tree in the garden of eden? Didn’t you ever notice how when people educate themselves they tend to realize how wrong religion is, except for those Christians who try to use science to further prove their god’s existence? Knowledgeable people tend to realize fantasy from fact easily. Man has instincts like all creatures to survive which can lead them to do bad things, but it doesn’t take a god to overcome that it takes empathy, a strong will, and compassion. If you honestly need religion to have these things then you need not question the non-believers, you need to question yourself. A knowledgeable person tends to realize this, whereas a person who settles for a religion such as Christianity settle for having someone else think for them so long as they are associated with the church. Champy0n Can I just say this: The word of God has been tainted throughout many churches and many mouths alike. Not all religious people judge. I’m a Christian, and I know that church is just a building, the relationship I have with God is my own. I will not question how you think, Or push you to think how I do. That is not right I know better. I sin everyday I have the mouth of a sailor, I have a temper, and I used to drink way more than I should. That being said I am no better than anyone here…However, I do think people are making Christians look bad when some of us know how to treat others no matter the given situation at hand. Graviol My birth gave me free will, not some invisible entity you’ve chosen to pretend really passionately in. The Bible means no more than a book by the brothers Grimm. Jesus died because the Romans killed him, “for his fellow man” is meaningless unless you actually believe his philosophy. Hank1947 There is no such thing as “FREE WILL”. According to the Bible, everything is part of God’s plan and He knows our every thought and action before we even know ourselves. Therefor, we can only choose what God has pre ordained to happen which is compliance not choice. Sharif Hamdy Stop Athiest….leave it alone…this isnt about that so, just can it. Ivoblack You seem angry…you should pray. Sharif Hamdy Trollin are ya….lol, well you have fun with that precious. Anthony Edwards Why didn’t you stop the Christian and tell him to can it? Is it about that? Red Rover Thank you, sir. Red Rover I find this ironic because if it were a person preaching about god you’d have praised him/her giving the credit to your god when its not about your god. asfsaf You delusional moron. Gemma You delusional a-hole. backhe “And the acts of man are powered through the acts of God.” Please, explain that sentence to me. It makes literally no sense in context of the OP, if anything in any context. Rick It was a reply to Icarus Soryu’s statement: “The acts of man are better than the acts of God.” Rick Im sorry, I just realized it had it backwards. You’re right it does not make sense. I meant to say “And the acts of God are powered through the acts of man.” As if to say, God assisted the doctors to save his life. not telling you are a complete idiot if you truly believe that bullshit sukTHEfac So all credit goes to god and not chamby? That’s a bit twisted. That’s a very convenient response. You can say god is responsible for everything but that doesn’t make it real. http://www.youtube.com/fuckyoubitch fukboiswagdicksinyamouth if thats the case he would’ve also sent the child to the rapist, or vice versa. backhe Oh, we’re still seriously debating religion? It’s 2014 and we still haven’t all reached the conclusion that religion is just Stone Age explanations of todays scientifically proven phenomenas? Rick No we haven’t because most of the world still has faith in God. The only people that start these debates are people like you who want everyone to know that “they’re different” or “better than everyone” for not believing and expect some sort of respect for it. Respect is earned, not given. You holding yourself high like your above everyone will never earn you any respect. So please, get off your soap box and lower your megaphone. You’re not reaching any body. Dan Bennett Yes most of the world still has faith in god… doesnt it bug you that most of the world doesnt have faith in YOUR god? Steven Are you serious? Do you know how many Christians are in the world today? Not to mention other religions? MOST people believe in something other than themselves. There’s no issue with us choosing to believe there’s something bigger than us out there comparatively to believing that I’m the best there is. You’re not. There’s something bigger than you. Brian Sleider Nope OVER half the world still believes in a higher power. Non believers are the minority. Dan Bennett Yes, but none of you can agree on the same higher power. And isnt that telling. Jf2sk3 I’m not autistic enough to argue with people over the internet like this, whether you believe in god or science in the end you are just a human being wasting your time behind a computer trying to prove your own opinions. You’re Christian, good for you , follow your faith but keep it to yourself. You don’t believe in god, good for you, forge your own values and beliefs. I will be extremely generous and sacrifice a shred of my time just to tell you this. Christianguy Yes, A shred of time that, if your theory was true, would be absolutely meaningless. After all, he cannot possibly be wasting his time behind a computer because the time he has would be completely without meaning; therefore we should be able to do whatever we want am I correct? Ross You are all proving how foolish the human race has become. All fueled by violence in one form or another. Whether it be physical action or arguing on a stupid comment box. You all have to try to prove you are right one over the other. No wonder this race is going to destroy itself one day… 911_laura god is acting THUR you to help stop the rape. We are his tools. We are the ones to protect and provide. thats why this is earth and not heaven Christopher Lapping I see comments like this a lot. Why does God let this happen? Why didn’t God prevent this or that? Well isn’t that the point of free will. God allowed this person to be shot like he allows you to choose what shirt to wear in the morning. YOU get to choose. Just like this gunman CHOSE to pull the trigger. If god intervenes and takes away your free will. What would be the point of living? You would be a mindless robot doing what you are programmed to do everyday. Luckily god gave the right individuals in this situation the CHOICE to save this kid. They didn’t have to but they CHOSE to. Dan Bennett Then God’s plan is shit. Either he has a plan, or we have free will. There is no middle ground. If God’s plan for me is to become some rich CEO and I decide to go and get addicted to Meth and become a Junkie then God’s plan failed. You people are trying to argue that there is Fate and Free Will. There cant be both, either everything is laid out, or nothing is laid out, but there cant be both. You people cannot honestly be this stupid can you? Until God comes down and physically forces me to do something, the only person who has control over this meat suit I call Dan, is me. I cannot blame God for my choices, or give him praise, because he did shit to deserve it. Every success, every failure that occurs to me is because of my own doing and my own will. Not because God planned it, but because I strived for it. It happened because I wanted it and worked for it. I put in the work, I get the result (sounds kinda like Newtons first law doesnt it?) So, if God does exist he must have an infinite number of plans, to account for every choice that every human is faced with every second of everday and every single possible out come. So the only way to believe in both free will, and god’s plan is to assume that either free will is a lie, or that God has many plans and is simply hedging his bets. Tannysha Yearby God doesn’t enslaves us. We have free will. A child getting raped is the absence of God’s laws and wisdom. Sin is on trial here. If he FORCED us do what he wants us to do, we would be slaves. He doesn’t want that. He wants us to see how bad the opposite of his ways is and choose him and his way of life. This will end. I hope you make the right choice. Btw, even if I didn’t believe in God, if I found myself I’m a situation like this, I would hope that something would be in my team and push me to where people could help me. If “someone” didn’t push him into the street, no doctors, paramedics, or parole officer would have been able to help him. And God uses people. He prefers to use us, but many of us are unwilling. Trust me, I’m qualified to talk about child rape and God is the reason I’m whole and happy. You may not agree but just think about it. Dan Bennett RIght, but you cant believe free will and God’s plan, so therefore it was God’s plan for you to get raped so that you would become a good Christian. That sounds pretty dark and sadistic for omnipotent benevolent god. PAUL You sound like a True “Atheist.” https://twitter.com/GotaGiTTaRIMJOB Walter Derden OH! LOOKS LIKE WE GOT ANOTHER BIGOT NARCISSISTIC FAGGOT OVER HERE! James King Bigot and faggot in the same insult? FAIL Lanster He was supposed to die, he couldn’t get up, he felt something helping him. If that is not a higher power of some kind I don’t know what is. He was shot close range by a shot gun in the head chest and arm and LIVED and you still sit here and deny God’s part in the matter? God created those doctors, they’re merely a conduit. You don’t have to believe in Christianity or any religion, but to deny a greater force in this world seems so foolish to me. Just how I perceive things. I challenge you to open your mind and heart a bit. Reason? What about Atheist doctors. That something helping him could have also just been shock or something.. Idk I’m not a doctor nor have I ever been shot. I do know the mind is an amazing thing and we don’t always control what runs through it. Nick Abbate Call it the power of the universe. God? When stuff like this happens that we cant explain we say god did it. Are we adults? God didnt create anything because there isnt one. Dont be silly. Religion is so ingrained people cant unlearn it. We know everything in this universe is made from molecules, atoms and energy. That’s where the answer lies. In science and fact. Let me guess when we die, who is there? The christian god? Wheres allah? Is he there too along with yahweh, krishna etc or are those guys wrong and the christians are right? By simple deductive reasoning we can assume that if there is a god, it would only be of one religion. Every religion cant be right. And of course YOUR religion is the right one. Or if there is only one god then religion makes no sense when you have people eating meat, not eating meet, facing east, not wearing shoes, yamikas etc. You would probably just have to be a good person. Thats the religion. Or just think about it for a sec and say there’s no way any of this is true. Religion impedes any rational judgement or thought. tat Yahweh, God, Allah are all the same God. The master is called by many names. And Krishna is an Indian deity. If there is no God, then how did all of those atoms and molecules come to be? They were created by something, or maybe they just showed up out of the blue all high science -y and shit LOL. Atheist are so busy trying to be logical but there reasoning behind being so pessimistic is always vague . So Tell me, a “scientist” told you that was the answer and it is just undoubtedly so. Knowing human nature you believe what someone told you about how the world came to be because he had a title? Well my friend that’s exactly what RELIGION is! Believing in something you can’t see, hear, feel. Have you actually seen an atom? Can you see a molecule ? But you believe it’s true. Don’t be so quick to condemn others for their beliefs, the more we as people think we’re different from one another the more we are actually the same. Same concept, different internalizations. bananaMild We all see atoms. We all see matter. We simply don’t see the parts of the atoms that we describe. But we can argue their existence through consistent evidence. Your argument for the creation of atoms and molecules is redundant; If God created everything, then what created God? Science and religion don’t have to disagree, as long as you don’t interpret every word of the bible as a literal truth. I find it a little offensive when people choose to thank a deity over the people who made decisions to help humanity for the greater good. Matthew 6:6 “But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” There is no need to proclaim God’s glory to all and offend those who don’t believe. But I find thanking the men and women who make choices to help others brings a little more good to the world. jack hs if you are saying all this then who created god??? cnizzile Have you heard of mircoscopes???? The thing about science is it provides evidence to their theories and when they are unsure they dont claim it to be factual! Science is the persuit of knowledge no matter where it leads, if it leads to a God or no God science wants to find the truth. Religion wants to control the people and have them not question anything and just except everything that is in the man made bible as fact, even if the have edited a couple times. That’s the difference between science and religion, much like when science proved that the sun does not orbit the Earth religion pushed back on that idea! Similar to how today science show evidence of the Earth being much older than what religion claims, but religion stills push back against actual proof! someonehere “God” is letting the children starve and die, war happen so we kill each other in droves, and the world is turning to shit. So let’s give a big thanks to “God” as the good ole US continues to murder. Good ole “God” is giving people cancer, making people who are born with mental disorders, and allowing some of our worst role models to prosper. So, while your “God” who supposedly created these things is idly sitting back, the few people that care to fix these things are busting their asses. BTW, if you were born in a Muslim country, you’d probably be Muslim. Same with any other eeligion, including christianity Rick All of the people that work to resolve these problems do it because they care right? And I bet most of them have strong have faith in God. Some say: “Its Gods will” or something similar to when asked why they do what they do to help. I think thats where God presents himself. Through those hard workers and good samaritans. ALex Everyone on this thing who is challenging God and blaming him for their own problems and the worlds problems needs to go take their mommy and daddy issues somewhere else, cause honestly half of your are atheists or people who can’t own up for their own problems in life. I had cancer when I was 16 and had my whole life ripped away. I went through hell and back for 2yrs and constantly challenged God and blamed everything on him, before I finally realized the world is not controlled by God, our world is born with free will and the knowledge to know that we do wrong, so blame the rapist, thugs, white trash pieces of shit for what they do and not God. He puts instruments in our lives like doctors who helped this kid survive. God is your scape goat and you ignorant people love to blame someone. You use him like you blame mexicans for taking jobs in our country or how you blame black people for wasting our money on welfare. grow up, and learn to see that they call it faith because you can’t see it, but instead its something you feel in your heart. You don’t like my or anyone else’s faith, than we will pray for you and your stupidity. janko I applaud religion for the fact that it is irrefutable… Don’t mistake me for saying it is correct though, I’m not a believer. By this I mean that any excuse can be made on the fly in order to defend a belief in a god. Anything bad attributed to a god… “Oh no! That’s actually a different evil thing making those things happen.” Yeah… Our god only does the good stuff. All of the bad stuff comes from something else. Oh, and if I don’t understand something it’s because a god made it. The biggest problem I have is that if people don’t understand something it gets attributed to a god. My favorite is how was the universe created: “Big bang, eh? What came before that… That could only be made by a god.” My question to you is what came before that god then?… And before that, and that, and that, oh… and that. It’s a never ending cycle, but just because we don’t understand something doesn’t mean that some all-powerful deity made it. Feel free to call atheists and those who don’t believe in religion stupid all you want. I think you’d find it interesting to learn that the majority of the most intelligent people in the world are actually atheist or agnostic. Maybe smart people were just put on this earth by God to take care of His children that believe in Him so devoutly that they cloud their own judgement in the sciences. Dan Bennett Thanks, I wont pray for your stupidity but i will suggest that you get some fucking education you retard. The cause of your cancer was more than likely due to the amount of garbage we put in our food to preserve it. Your recovery was due to scientific brake throughs, not God. God has not place in this world. All you have done with your post is prove that you are one of these people blaming God when times are bad and thanking him when times are good. I can make an imaginary friend and blame him for all the shitty things in my life as well, but I dont see the point in a frivolous waste of my time. Shawn No we believe in the things we do because they can be verified, through research and experiments. And yes, we can see atoms and molecules through magic devises called microscopes. Its a big word I know. People that believe in god need to be removed, not by force but by education. I have no problem believing something happens to you after you die, but it needs to be taken as what it is; conjecture. And all those deities that you mentioned are there because education wasn’t the greatest all that long ago. When the sun rose, people thought it was by god because at the time they didn’t know that it is a big ball of hydrogen and helium burning in space, and that we spin around it by a force called gravity. Believing otherwise is seen as uneducated by today’s standards. Dan Bennett You are right Tat… Simply because we do not know how the universe started, and how molecules and atoms and the stars came to be, the answer must be God. Scientists dont claim to know the answer, they are just asking the right questions. And whether or not they come up with the right answer right away is irrelevant as we will learn the answers as we go on. Science and religion do share a bit of the same world, except for the fact that science can be proved and religion can not. I can go and find scientific experiments that will allow me to see chemical reactions/ evolution/ and other scientific truths. Religion is based on blind faith, of some father figure saying “do it and you will burn forever” aaron see heres where your wrong, christianity does not interfere with science at all, obviously the world is made of molecules and atoms, its there and the evidence is there. you see christians love science, i love science, but when people find the ark, and SCIENTISTS prove that the red sea could have been separated by tunnel winds, and that they found an entire egyptians army worth of chariots and armor on the bottom of the red sea how do you not believe? i love learning stuff, i do, stuff like this is not explainable, really its not and if you think its possible to learn how this guy lived is even remotely possible then be my guest and try to explain to me HOW he lived, apart from God lifting him up and making him present to somebody who will help him, being able to admidt that we dont know everything and cant is more adult than being stubborn and trying to know everything, im content with saying this was an act of god, because who am i to say it wasent god and theres no way that he could live without it being god? he got a shotgun to the chest and head, probably through the lungs, i hunt deer, i take a single small piece of lead and poke it through the lungs of a deer and its dead in minutes, take in part that im 100 yards away and its lost momentum by the time it gets there, and its a single peice of lead. this is hundreds of tiny steel pellets at point blank which does 10x the damage, and he lived after being shot in the chest and glanced off his head. theres no possible way he survived without god, and im content knowing that Nathan Garrett you are retarded. I would looooove to see your “scientific evidence” that supports the wild claim that wind tunnels parted the red sea. Plus you should go back and learn the geological and topographical history of the area where the sea was supposedly parted. It was a marsh for most of the year and flooded during heavy rains. There simply was no “sea” to part back then. Plus later on there were wars when the area filled permanently with water, which inevitably led to sinking ships in the area, hence why one is able to find trinkets from the old days. i find it remarkable that you say that you love science, yet take testimony as fact; something that is never practiced in real scientific study. DM Ignorance is bliss as they say… This guy is either one of the best internet science trolls I have ever encountered and his ignorance and self assurance is cringe worthy. Either way its probably not worth continuing the argument although it is great entertainment. To each their own I guess, as he keeps out of politics. The sooner people like this realize that its our responsibility as a society to take care of one another and not some Risk playing invisible man in the sky, the sooner we can take care of the many inhumane problems this world has. Anon So what are you doing to take care of the many inhumane problems this world has? Probably not a thing! But God’s people are! Our own government don’t do anything for us! Dan Bennett RIght, like giving to Christian organization such as United way and Unicef which keep 70+% of the profits for themselves. Good old Christianity. Dan Bennett The kid said he heard his own voice, not god’s. His words not mine. Try again Bible Thumper gina It is obv you don’t know much about God or the Bible…..there would not be one religion because of the free will given to humans….and they are not all righ….t the Bible tells you what is right…and where do you think molecules,,,atoms….and energy came from??….would hate to be you….. Nathan Garrett you don’t even make sense. rethink your sentence and stop using “………” it just makes you look stupid Shawn Would hate to be you. You sound ignorant and stupid. But ignorance is bliss so I suppose you go about your day not knowing what goes on around you. Actually, I take that back. Being you would probably be pretty cool, what a magical world we live in, where you can pick up a piece of plastic and talk to someone far away! Its like god enables this plastic to have someone speak through it. Or this box in my living room, it shows pictures and they move! god must have put that there to. How about those mechanical horses? This magic liquid goes in, and it makes this sound, and then it moves. God must have willed them to move, that way I can make it to work. What a magical world we live in! You need to give your head a shake. Dan Bennett Wow you are a whole new level of moron. I get it now, Christianity and Religion appeals to those among us who have no idea how the world works, and no idea on how to live their lives. So they turn to an organization that brainwashes them and turns them into sheep. Do you know the difference between a Cult and Religion? Religions get a tax break. Personally I would hate to be you, unable to think on my own, or question supposed truths. I would hate to live a life where I am so moronic that I must follow a book that has been translated, altered and fucked around with till it hardly resembles it original form. GO back fucking church you fucking idiot. Chris And how exactly does religion ‘impede any rational judgement or thought’? Or are you just saying that because that’s what every other atheist says? ZacharyBeinks Jesus Christ is the only way. I am telling you the truth. “Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’ Anon Why is he “supposed to die?” He was shot and a doctor saved his life. I don’t see god, I see a fantastic doctor and an officer who called him an ambulance. To say it was anything else is borderline delusional. It’s not opening your mind or heart, it is falsifying a story. Alastair Sorry to burst your bubble it was probably adrenaline helping him get up and the feeling of someone helping him get up was a hallucination due to the severe amount of blood loss. God didn’t save him. The guy saved himself. The Doctors fixed him and gave him a second chance. Give credit to people where it is due. Stop praising God just because you read a book written by men saying he’s real. logician Somebody could say the same about science……just saying that if all books men write are books that are false, then the book you read must be false…. And please don’t pose some poorly constructed invalid arguement like the others here….. Alastair I didn’t say that all books men write are false, where the hell did that come from? There is absolutely 0 evidence of gods existence. ZERO. He hasn’t shown himself to the world and there appears to no evidence of him ever existing outside the bible of each culture. Science studies things in the hope of understanding them. We have proven things like Gravity and have created tools to observe deep space and even have cameras that can almost see light particles as they move. We can observe these things. Throw an apple it falls to the ground due to Earths gravity pulling it down. (I won’t go into detail with this, please don’t ask me to explain it, in some desperate attempt to cling to god). Science gets things wrong, but that’s the point. To find the right answer. Where is God? Have you seen him? I certainly haven’t. I believe in things I can observe and/or touch. This rebutal was rushed. Sorry. I’m playing a game created by men and women to have fun. I’m drinking a Coke Cola made by machines created by men and women. I’m also watching a game of football where men showcase their skills they spent hours honing. God didn’t do these things. We did. Don’t credit God when it’s us who do these simple, but marvelous things. We evolved to think and learn. I think that covers it. Logician Sorry, I didn’t even put any effort into talking, but since i didn’t, I guess that makes me a fool. Because only observable data is real, not potential data. I assume you are familiar with the black swan theory? That effectively illustrates how there could be a god and we not know about it. Just because you haven’t seen, heard or anything else observable doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist….. Sorry, I’m using logic created by men to discover truths already known by god and to see errors made by men. What are you using? Intuition, thoughts or emotions? Because your certainly not being rational about others thoughts or beliefs…. Gemma Science goes only so far, then comes God. There is so much science can’t prove, because science says what is definite. It can’t prove that anything doesn’t exist. It can’t say unicorns don’t exist, because that’s definite, and there’s a possibility they actually might. Just because no one has seen a unicorn, doesn’t mean they’re not real. Same goes for the existence of God, but that’s where faith comes in. It’s easy to see you don’t have that. Hey, look. I’d rather go my whole life believing there is a God, then find out I’m wrong, instead of going my whole life NOT believing and then find out I’m wrong. Jake Hi all. Im a random reader. Just wanna pitch in to this great debate On science- Science proves the ‘how’ never the ‘why’. Religion points to the ‘why’. Its improper to say that science has ANYTHING to do with the ‘why’ of ANYTHING. Alastair was correct when he said ‘we can observe these things’. Science is about observations, not purpose. On ‘Proof’ of God – Surely there is no scientific ‘proof’ of God because there hasn’t been (might not be, ever) a scientific-method approach/method to determining the ‘proof’ of God. BUT ALSO there has never been any ‘proof’ that GOD DOESN’T exists, for the same reason that there hasn’t been (might not be, ever) a scientific-method approach/method to determining the ‘proof’ of God. How would one ‘prove’ God to exist/not exist? Great question Briefly on Evolution – First, Evolution theory forgets the BEGINNING of evolution, and also doesn’t claim REASONING for evolutionary developments, like Alastair tries to claim that it does. Evolution has NO idea where evolution BEGAN, potentially de-validating the theory all together. Second, to say that we evolved in order TO think and learn would put our own thinking/learning capacity to be an evolved mechanism that developed JUST to help us develop/evolve. If logic/reasoning is strictly an evolutionary byproduct, we wouldn’t even be able to trust it. As an example, We can see in birds that THEIR reasoning/logic lets them fly away in attempt to preserve themselves when we quickly jump at them and not ACTUALLY threaten their life. Their logic/reasoning isn’t based on reality, in that moment, because they acted on a presumption that wasn’t true, but they trust their logic/reasoning anyway. Just like those birds, how could WE ever know that our logic/reasoning points to the TRUTH?! Clearly, the bird wouldn’t fly away if it KNEW there was no threat, because it would know the TRUTH. How can WE,then, trust what WE think/logically conclude is the TRUTH, because we only know our own logic/reasoning? Perhaps the ONLY way to PROVE something is the actual TRUTH would be to test something that CLAIMS to be the TRUTH. To claim evolution has given us logic/reason as the end byproduct of evolutionary development tells that even logic/reasoning can’t be trusted as absolute faculties, as logic/reasoning may not be founded in TRUTH (as illustrated by the bird). The ability of reasoning can not be observed/touched. That puts reasoning, itself, outside of the realm of scientific ‘proof’. For those who wish to hold so tightly to the need for ‘proof’, look at even this great debate and ‘prove’ the act of reasoning. This is great, hope this continues. Alastair I was sort of attacking the people who attribute all good things that happen in the world to God. I also reallyyyy hate people who “pray for the safety of others” after an accident of something. Seriously? Instead of getting off your ass and helping to fix the situation (if it’s within reason), you’re going to get down on your knees and speak to a being that may or may not exist? A good example of this is a Christian married couple let their daughter slowly die instead of getting her proper medical care (I can’t remember the disease). They “prayed” for her health, sweet fuck all happened (Suprise!!!) It’s the easy route. Stop asking god to fix everything, get up and get working and helping yourself and/or others. And another thing. The Vatican made new age sins such as “Excessive wealth”…. A bit hypocritical considering the Vatican has billions in assets and liquid money, why aren’t they giving a large amount of it to charity? Also the fact that they add these new sinsjust like that really proves that the bible was created by men wishing to manipulate other people, they just alter shit to their liking. People who claim to be devoted to the Bible really aren’t… Because the bible says to burn gays to death…. I don’t see that happening often. You might say, but Alastair that is a bit extreme??? Well yes it is, but it’s in the bible. you seem to have no problem preaching and following the good bits, why aren’t you doing the other stuff in the bible? If you truly believe in God you will follow the bible 100% and not pick and choose what you want. End rant. I’m done, no more replies. I got shit I want to do. jessica I love how you did not directly respond to anything Jake said to you. That speaks volumes. Alastair Oh so just because I didn’t respond to a single person, that immediately invalidates my opinion? Ok fine. Science proves the ‘how’ never the ‘why’. Well… Not true, technically. It proves how AND why things do what they do. An animal moves. How? It has a body with muscles and nervous system. Why? So it can move to hunt prey, or move out of bad weather. WHY is that animal here? Who knows, chance? A massive chain of improbable events leading to its creation. We can never confirm the why scientifically because we haven’t existed that long as a race. DO NOT immediately equate that to intelligent design. That’s the idiot route. On ‘Proof’ of God You say there’s no evidence of God existing but also no evidence of him NOT existing. Ok…. In the thousands of years of God existing in the minds of men/women, during that entire time. Has there ever been an ounce of evidence ever proving his existence… Not just one person accounts. Actual God shining down from the heavens and walking with his fellow man? With the proof that he is indeed God? Don’t you dare say that God cannot/will not walk the Earth due to some magical bullshit. “He works in mysterious ways.” “he doesn’t want us to know he exists.” If something is real, there has to be evidence and maybe evidence of God existing is yet to be shown to us. It might show up in the future. But believing in God just because a book says you go to hell if you don’t subscribe to its teachings, is just plain sad. I’m not going to touch on Evolution as this was more a god is real/not real debate. I do however believe in the process of evolution and all the science it brings with it. IS THAT BETTER? anon No where in the Bible does it say to burn Gays! I do do what the Bible says. It says to love your neighbor as you love yourself. So I love you! anon Did you see the Big Bang? Were you there? Do you know one person that was there to witness it? NO! You have faith that the Big Bang happened just like we have Faith that there is a God! And there is evidence to prove it. Do your own research on it! Watch the Ken Ham/Bill Nye debate over this. Bill Nye says that they can’t prove the Big Bang actually happened. Alastair I didn’t at any point say I believed the big bang is what created this universe. I for one doubt that the big bang is what created this universe. I believe the universe has always existed, never had a start, never has an ending. Mark 2112 i see God everyday…..I see him when my children smile, when my wife tells me she loves me. Nathan Garrett books that hold sound studies and knowledge that is testable are held as valuable. The bible is simply a story book only filled with, you guessed it, stories. A lot different than a peer reviewed research paper. But you’ve probably never read a thesis, or scientific journal on any subject other than theology, have you? Missionary how about the dead sea scrolls, i’d say those are pretty real evidence of what you call “stories”. You try to say there is no God? Christians have evidence of God, called the Bible and real life experiences, like the kid in this video. What evidence do you have that He doesn’t exist? I guarantee you don’t have anything other than your word only. Nathan Garrett Oh well excuse the hell out of me! You found some dusty old scrolls that were written by people a few thousand years ago, that must be proof of… people writing things a few thousand years ago. And since when is testimony considered “proof” of anything? Should we also believe in the Yeti because of himalayan testimony? Because they fall in the same category as you are claiming. Hey while we’re at it, lets say that the tooth fairy exists too, because children can give testimony all over the U.S. Like I said too, the bible is an edited compilation of stories, with no historical reality. Oh and I’m not the one who has to come up with some sort of proof for my side. The burden of proof is on you buddy. You claim that mystical deities exist, so man up and give a sound argument. I my proof is that people like you struggle to come up with a reasonable argument to your cause, while science has a real and beneficial impact on our world in a tangible and testable way. Scientists have no time for story books, they are too busy making medicine and cell phones, and space programs, while you are sitting in some church trying claim that you know everything. And that’s the difference between theology and science. Scientists seek knowledge and look forward to delving into the unknown, while you are afraid of the unknown. You call it satan, then claim you know, without ever setting foot in the real world, the answers to all llife’s questions. So far the world has heard no sound arguments from the religious to prove anything from that little book of yours, and we’re still waiting. Actually we aren’t waiting, we are passing you up and getting educations to make the world a better place instead of sitting around praying and trying to make others believe in our fairy tales. Because the last time religion was in charge of collective knowledge, they burned books and said that ailments were caused by demons. And look where that went. We like to call that the dark ages now. Vivian This is not a competition between and science and religion. There is no competition between the two. Faith is something that is very strong and that is why the bible (which was created thousands of years ago) is still being talked about even till this day, because we choose to have faith. Science and religion can peacefully co-exist. Science has given us many answers to many of the questions about the world we live in today. Where science falls short is that it can not answer the question of why we are all here and who created the created the world we live in? Missionary well if you really want proof it’s all there, you just need to look for it the same way you look for answers in science. Plus the tooth fairy and all that stuff was never meant to be actual truth so it was kind of dumb to use those as your examples. And yes you do need to prove that God doesn’t exist if you believe ONLY in science. That’s the way this works. Plus, I know plenty of scientists that believe in God as well, and they connect the two, and it makes more sense to them. And who says I’m afraid of the unknown. I believe in God based off real life experiences that I’ve had and I’ve seen what it’s done for me. So don’t try to put words in my mouth and use crappy arguements to disprove me. And good for you with your education, I will too. Too bad it wont do anything for you after you die cause you don’t believe anything happens after that. Yupp the dark ages sucked, cause people changed religious doctrine and went corrupt. Just so happens that they used religion to control people. Clearly they didn’t live what the gospel taught. But anyway, none of your arguements have changed anything here, and they never will. That tends to happen when something is true. So have fun trying to disprove something that has been around since the beginning and will be around long after you’re gone. Nathan Garrett How old are you, 12? using the dead sea scrolls as “proof” of god and subjective testimonials are crappy arguments. I can dig into thousands of independent studies that prove the existence of many features of our universe and at the same time are humble enough to say “I don’t know” when there are mysteries yet to be solved. Your selfish, arrogant religion claims to just “know” everything there is to know about morals, consciousness, geologic features, weather, taxonomy, etc etc, only using some self written book that had nothing to do with concepts such as research, testing and observation. You need to admit when you are way over your head when debating things out of your league. Leave the actual, world changing events in science to the experts and stay out of it if you don’t want to contribute anything other than “believe or go to hell”. Mark 2112 you claim you don’t know and in the next sentence state just the opposite. you don’t know if you’re coming or going son. Mark 2112 so hows the world going with your ‘educations?’ — seems like we are going backwards what with man living his life based on greed, corruption, desire, ect…..so enlighten me how you are making things better with your ‘educations’ Mark 2112 actually i have …. and unlike you i’m not some condescending prick who believes he has all the answers. Shawn Books backed up with proof. You should look into the scientific method. Everything needs to be peer reviewed and duplicated through experiment. Dan Bennett Except science is supported with fact that you can see, analyze and quantify for yourself. Religion and the bible arent. Sarah Nicolle Laborde A book that has been written…and rewritten and rewritten because we keep omitting the parts we don’t like. Sorry, but I can decide for myself what is right and wrong. I don’t need an edited book. Mark 2112 ah so you believe there is a wrong and a right, a good and an evil…..and yet you dismiss religion….how ironic. Dan Bennett Good and evil have nothing to do with religion. Where your parents sibling or are you just stupid? Mark 2112 i really cannot reply to this level of ignorance. Rick Well, thats what faith is. Believing in something that you can’t prove. The doctors did their job, and they did it well. And I bet most of them thanked God for their ability to save his life. Shawn Not probably. Was. Adrenaline works like this, and coupled with being in shock your brain shuts down conscious thought. In laymens terms your on autopilot. Like an animal retreating because its hurt. You dont know what happened only something does, your ability to think isn’t even there. This isn’t something undocumented and unknown, just extremely rare given the injuries. Justin Majoue it was buck shot bro ots of people get buckshotted like that and live if he got a shotgun slug to the chest or part of his head hes dead on arrival foreal and all that lifting him up lol yah i felt like iwas lifted up when i came to from blacking out its called your equilibrium fucking with you and muscle memory Lenny Murphy Actually, there is a 1:1,000,000 chance that the shooter can miss vital organs that would kill someone if shot, so god has nothing to do with it. Nathan Garrett Well, considering that the shotgun pellets didn’t burst his heart or penetrate his brain, I’d say that’s just lucky for him. Your god also has another name in his scenario, it’s called “modern medicine” Mark 2112 and where did we learn about ‘modern medicine?’ — where did the materials that allowed us as humans to start from fire to where we are today come from? did it just exist all the time? Prokeyn Don’t put your trust in God. Don’t put your trust in any faith. Be a good person, and see what that does for you. I’m sure it does a lot better than wasting every Sunday standing in the pews, telling yourself that you can only be a good person on someone else’s terms. backhe Who should open their mind, the person blindly believing in Stone Age superstitions indoctrinated by his parents from early childhood, or the person who’s capable of critical thinking, scepticism and reflection, who tries to find proof through the proven laws of science to answer his questions, instead of a 2000 year old book written by the 100 literate people alive at that time? Tell me, Lanster, what about all the thousands of people who gets shot in the head EVERY SINGLE DAY who dies, often in torturous ways, did God not bother saving them? The premise of your logic is so flawed that it resembles that of a mental patient. someonehere Well, it was miraculous. But tell me – if you were born in a different country, such as Islam, and your parents followed the Islamic or Muslim religion, would you still be a christian or catholic and believe in god? No, you wouldn’t. Its all about ideas presented to us at a young age that make us believe in them. I’m not gonna rule out the possibilities of anything, but I will say I’m not following any religion, for all of them could be wrong or one could be right. I would like proof, logicalexplanations about this subject, not myths and stories written by a small handful of people Gilroy It doesn’t matter if it was god’s hand or the will of the universe. We all should just be happy that he is alive and doing well. Everything else is pointless. No one is going to change their beliefs because someone is trolling them on the internet. someonehere Essentially, I believe this is just our innate nature to try and survive. I don’t believe any higher force willed it. I’m not so desperate as to throw it immediately onto the will of some asshole that allows us to kill each other in droves. If he’s real, he’s quite the dick. If he was guiding us, nobody would’ve shot this kid. Rick I believe he tries to guide us, just some people decide not to be guided. But maybe not. Maybe he even guided this kid to have terrible aim. Shawn Last time I check god hasn’t done anything for me. My parents made me, raised me, the school system educated me along with my parents, I got myself through school, into a career, and I myself have done the good things that I have done. Religion is a bane on our species, and is the cause of the most hurt and wrong doings. People like you will cease to exist one day, and that day is the day humanity achieves greatness, beyond what we have today. anon That’s correct! People like us will cease to exist here on this corrupt world but we will live forever in the New Kingdom here on Earth while some will spend eternity in the burning pits of Hell! I pray for those that persecute God! I bet there has been a time in your life that God revealed himself to you. You were to blind to see it! There were probably times in your life when something happened and you said to yourself,”I have no idea how that happened, but glad it did?” Well it didn’t happen by fate! Mark 2112 you did nothing by yourself. aaron God picked him up, gave him that push so he COULD get seen, and taken to the hospital, so the doctor could work on him. your absolutely right without a doctor he woudl be dead, with without god picking him up and moving him along he would of never been found Buddy Christ Why didn’t god just prevent the guy from shooting him in the first place. I guess he likes to see people in pain to prove his point. I believe you though, he exists and hes a real dick when he wants to get a point across. gina If you think acts of men are better than acts of God you have a real problem and I feel sorry for you……lost souls make me sad…. Nathan Garrett People that choose not to educate themselves make me sad Tubeyou2 And there are people much more intelligent and educated than you that believe in God, explain that. You just enjoy going to these sites trying to use your knowledge and education to put down others you feel are inferior to you and your beliefs. That is what makes me sad. Nathan Garrett I never insinuated that. First off, you mistake me for having “beliefs”. I have no beliefs. A lack of religion is not a belief. But you should check out the study that finds that Atheists are on average more intelligent than those who follow a religion, now that we’re on the subject. I put down people because they deserve to be ridiculed for not giving credit to the doctors for saving this kid’s life. You insult the surgeons and staff at the hospital when you say that god made him better. Also, money held by scientists are used to research things that make the quality of human life improve. While money held by religious institutions are used to proliferate said religion and bring punishments to those who think differently. Explain that. Mark 2112 ‘a lack of religions is not a belief?’ well that is about the stupidest thing you’ve said yet (and that is saying something) — you choose to NOT believe in God a.k.a BELIEF. Nathan Garrett yeah? what are some stupid things I’ve said? Oh wait, you don’t have a counter argument, so you’re throwing insults because you want to vilify those you can’t compete intellectually with. You’ve only succeeded in making yourself look like an ass with the comment “You don’t believe, therefore you believe”. Really? And you say I am the stupid one?? You’re right I don’t have all the answers, but I sure as hell have more than you because I actually take the time to do my research, instead of having some religious “leader” tell me what to think. So go on, tell me how stupid I am, and try to not contradict yourself this time. Or better yet, start quoting a bunch of bible verses like the rest of the morons, pretending like you’re making an argument. http://steamcommunity.com/id/mikhos Mikhos You’re right, because GOD invented Penicillin, GOD discovered DNA, and GOD has crippled the AIDS virus. Grow up and look around you. People do great things, things we can document. Nikki Well since you want to be an ass lets break it down further. There would be no doctor if someone hadn’t called the ambulance. There would be no ambulance had no one seen him coming out the trees. He wouldn’t have stumbled out the trees had he not been picked up by this force he exclaimed not only stood him up but pushed him in the right direction. Can someone explain said force against gravity? Since we want to be all technical and shit. Go ahead…I’m waiting Jodie Really? Who do you thinks hands he was feeling pull him up and push him forward right after he was shot? God’s hands gave him strength to get up and get out of the situation. Sad that you don’t see that. Rick And the acts of man are powered through the acts of God. Trishia Starks Who do you think guided the doctor? Why? I don’t care what you think, you can deny the sun for all I care but it will still be there. God was, is, and will be to come for all eternity. He isn’t a controversial “idea”, He isn’t your buddy you can hang with on a Saturday night, He’s not a tool of religion, He is GOD. He created us, knowing full well that He would be rejected by His own creation. Imagine that! Why, you don’t even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Forget yourself. Remember God. barney rubble Ickydick Sorou, Your feeble attempt to discredit God only feeds the hearts of fools such as yourself. Even if you are so in love with yourself ( And I imagine there isn’t much there worth loving) God still loves you. One day you will be glad to have come to that realization. 7DIgitz the act of man is because the act of god 911_laura fuck off. Yes god. that third voice was god, the cop seeing him was god. The dr suddenly not going to give up when anyother time he would have…god. god works THRU people. PEOPLE is his tools to get HIS work on earth done. so . YES GOD did help YES THANKS BE TO GOD. I have worked In EMS for 14 years and trust me THERE IS A GOD. did your parents protected u from EVERYTHING? no they let you get hurt so u can learn and grow from it. Earth is not ment to be all good and wonderful like heaven. Its life and life has a lot of bad in it because he lets us make our own choices some choose to do the right thing, some choose the wrong side. not gods fault. So I guess I am sick of people blaming god for ALL the bad in the world BUT WILL NOT GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR THE BLESSING IN THE WORLD EITHER. IF you are not going to believe then don’t blame him either. don’t bounce back and worth. in. the end God just wants people to love EVERYONE and do no harm to anyone or anything. Its not hard to understand or even do even if you don’t believe in God. Just be nice kind and caring to everyone and everything. It doesn’t matter to him if u believe or not. just follow the golden rule. do on to others as u would want them to do on to u. there rant over carry on… Chris Bowen shut the fuck up you atheist prick . God was inside every person who helped that kid that day Jason Ohms it is by god that men have the knowledge that they do baaba . God is a belief that inspires people to do good to have faith in a positive outcome. “God” definitely had a hand in helping this kid along with everyone else. Thank everything and don’t exclude something just cause you don’t believe. strike freedom How can the credit go to God? LOL You god should be given credit too to the billions of people that will eventually die too and we all will die?? Nolan Hughes Yeah, NO CREDIT to the doctor. Typical idiot!!!! anon Disregarding the whole “Is God Real?” debate, this is absolutely disrespectful to the doctors who have spent their entire lives studying and preparing for these exact situations where they are called upon for. How would you feel if you toiled endlessly for years, half-asleep in your room studying, and with all the pressure in the world pushing down on you to save a man’s life, only for your successes to be attributed to someone else who pretty much did nothing but say “You can do it.” Please leave “the grace of God” to winning coin flips and lottery tickets. jfo I watch a lot of Long Island Medium, and frankly…i’d give credit to his “angels” – aka, deceased relatives and friends, before GOD. Which better explains why some seem to survive the most insane of circumstances, where they surely SHOULD have died, and others die in situations where it’s just mind boggling – how did that happen? Perhaps, in the end…our fate lies in the hands of our dead relatives and if they feel like watching over us that day, or maybe…some of them didn’t make it to heaven, but are watching none the less and give us that little nudge in front of the oncoming bus, or off the bridge, or out the 100th floor of the building. It’s just so much easier to not think…and just say PRAISE BE TO GOD! because if we actually think about it, we might conclude heaven doesn’t sound so awesome…the idea that I would go to heaven and spend who knows how long “watching” every detail of my living family live out their lives, sounds a little disturbing. like this is one giant reality tv show… Stephen Johnson I would say that the credit goes to Ross, the parole officer who found him, the paramedics who took him to the hospital, the doctors who refused to give up on him and Ross’s family and friends who helped him to get through his recovery. If you give God credit for his survival, then is God not equally responsible for his getting shot in the first place and for sending a fifteen year old kid to prison for thirty five years? lou So where was god in allowing him to get shot 3x you dummy….. The credit goes to the paramedics and doctors. Stop perpetuating stupid fables. Lanster Absolutely! aara_aara God?!? @jamesjustjamesparks:disqus Idiot. Scott All credit? Credit God for the kid with the shot gun? Credit God for the gang? Credit God for the numerous kids that did and will die? All credit goes to God? Jordan Miles Kaplowitz I disagree. God allows Free Will. But it was the kid. The kid could of just slept, and he would of died. But because the kid put in the effort, the strength to fight for his life, God helped him. God mostly doesn’t do anything for you, you have to want it, you have to fight for it, and if you do, you will have God’s Blessing. I could agree that the doctor wanting to fight for the kid, rather than give up, was God’s blessing for the kid’s survival. John Hyland James you stupid twat , thanks are only to those people who helped, if anything blame a malevolent God for that assailant with a shotgun Cory Desmarais I’m not a religious person but SHAME ON YOU ALL for contesting this man’s beliefs. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! Northerner Why not blame it on MAN rather than GOD!!! Johnny Le Was it meant for him to get shot? How can god get the credit for saving him but not the blame for shooting him? Mandy Amen! thejevans You would have better luck thanking the machine that packed the shells in such a way as to perforate just the right amount of flesh to let him live. There is at least evidence that happened, whether there was intent or not. David J. Dill Leave it alone, dickheads. If people want to believe and have faith in a divine entity, let ‘em. Nice to know free will and tolerance exist. common sense Why is it you people are always quick to say it was god when something good happens but when its a bad thing its all ”free will” and ”god works in mysterious ways”. If God ended this then he defiantly started it and by suggesting it you’re implying everyone else who has died in a similar circumstance deserved it. some damn kids You guys are arguing over who saved his life like shut up. This kid went through all this shit and made it out. At the end of the day he saved his own life because he kept pushing if that didn’t happen he would of been dead. So everybody stop preaching about your beilfs AlienDan Purpose? Hmm, so I guess that means god wants 10,000 children to die every day world wide because that’ their purpose. truth ross is a good kid who should have not been afraid to racial profile. racial profiling would have prevented him from getting shot. Steve Racial profiling in Detroit is difficult because EVERYONE is black. Brian B Dub Williams Well the bible also tells us that, the devil likes to cause havoc, chaos, destruction, and confusion. You corey kelly are doing exactly that!! No one is bothering you, so why show your ignorance and disrespect towards others for their beliefs?????? You look and sound like a disciple of the devil. But I’ll still keep you in prayer, no name calling or bashing from my end. I’m sorry if something happened to you and you feel God has let you or someone close to you down in anyway. anon god did let him down. Everyone he has ever met and anyone he ever will meet is going to DIE!. same with you…. same with all of us…. what a merciful god….. Brian B Dub Williams You are right anon….. We will all meet the day when we will be no more on this earth and move on to a better place without any worries. I truly believe that so why can’t people just let others believe in what they want. Time after time GOD has tried to show us his love and power, but man always finds a way back to greed, selfishness, and hate. The free will he gives serves a purpose…. You want people to love you because they want to, not because their scared or know what you can do to them. That’s WHAT GOD wants from me and those who believe like me. My testimony; a car wreck left me in a coma, with eight broken ribs, broken collarbone, two collapsed lungs, and swelling on my brain. I come from a praying family who brought me up as a Christian and showed me how to pray, love, and respect others. With that being said I will always stay true to my GOD, and yes things happen but it’s all a test in my faith. Just let me be and express the way I feel, no matter what you believe I still have that right to do so and should be able to without being called out my name. Daisy Sampson We come to die because we all sinned against God in the Kingdom of Heaven. Just like those who commit a grievous crime here on earth and get the death penalty for it, so in Romans 6:23 it says the wages of our sins is death. That’s why we all come to die. Jesus says he came to seek and to save what was lost.(Luke 19:10). And the Bible tells us who the lost are in Matthew 9:13, Jesus says, But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice. ‘ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners. ” Seek and call mean the same. For example, whenever you call someone you are seeking them right? So just like that Jesus Christ came to seek and save us sinners who were once lost from the Kingdom of Heaven. So in Ephesians 1:7 the Bible says in him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins. So through Jesus’s blood we can receive the forgiveness of our sins. To learn more about how we can partake in Jesus’s blood please email me at [email protected]. God bless you. tiffany appollonia I am not scared to die and I don’t see it as being a let down. In my heart I feel like we come to this world to learn and then after a short time go back home. If we want to come back again and learn some more we can. I love God with all of my heart and I love the relationship I hold with him. There was book I read about a woman passing away and then coming back to life gave me a lot of clarity. It was called Embraced by the light” any-who I realized that after you die is forever” and you really do reap what you sow, especially JOY. All the happiness you cause others you get to feel <3 God is a fag, receives anal You sound like you belong in an insane asylum. Honestly that’s what we should do with you religious freaks, put you out of your misery and clean up this world of the voodoo crazies. If it was your fucking god, the boy wouldn’t have been shot. If your god exists, may he go back in time and stop this event from ever happening…nope, still here, guess your wrong. What are you going to do about it, ignore facts and just cover your ears saying “lalalalalgodgodgod”. I hope you die of cancer and you pray the whole fucking time dipshit. Adam It’s amazing we live in a world where human beings can learn how to put another person who has been mangled by bullets back together. It’s a real testament to medical science. elite praise god for creating medical science Carter4Freedom Man what a touching story. Griff So there is no prove of God OK well that’s why they call the big bang a theory because they cannot prove it if you would just look around you would realize that everything was created by none other but God commenter “they cannot prove it” “everything was created by none other but God” Do you have proof to support the latter half of your statement? No, because that is a “theory”. Oh George, not the Livestock. well, the Genesis account says that God said “Let there be light and there was light.” It also states that “The earth was without form and void.” And that God created it all. So we have a prime mover making the world and the universe. It is also stated in other sections of the Old Testament that the voice of God sounds like thunder. Then we have the scientific account that states there was nothing and then there was a massive explosion, and then there was the earth and the stars, etc. So we have a voice like Thunder speaking and there is light and earth and stars on the one hand and a massive bang that creates everything out of nothing. Keeping in mind that typically according to science, it is impossible to create matter from nothing or without some catalyst. Something must have caused the big bang. Something created the matter that formed the earth. At least with Christian theology, there is a sort of logical basis for the beginning, i.e. there was a creator who started the ball (earth perhaps) rolling. Asm How about we stop arguing about whether or not this is God’s doing and accept the fact that it’s an amazing and inspirational story. If you believe in God, fantastic. If you don’t, fantastic. You have a right to your own opinion, but that doesn’t give you the right to demean anyone else because their opinion differs from yours. OOgle While I agree with the latter half of your statement. A main point of the video is that it is God’s work in action. If there is no debate about that then sadly, I think many people would not have even thought about it, on both sides. However, I do think that people should really be able to debate that point respectfully and with tact. I realize that is difficult to do with typing because it takes quite a length of text to make sure people know you aren’t trying to be offensive, and it is difficult to show emphasis without seeming like you are angry or calling someone out (like using CAPS LOCK). Still, if we can’t have a conversation about God without everyone going to attack-mode, what kind of state are we in as a people? anon to the contrary. I reserve the right to bash anyone who is shouting there opinions from the mountain tops. Especially when said opinions are neither logical nor provable. When you claim to believe in god I can instantly judge you as a moron who does not need evidence or proof in order to form a strong boneheaded opinion on a subject. You are the type of moron who will believe whatever is shoved down their throat without question. So when I say you are a moron for believing in god im not judging your wacky beliefs. im judging you and how moronic you have to be to accept this whole god concept with no questions asked…. Jason Then you could also be judged as a intolerant, argumentative, disrespectful, ignorant asshole for making assumptions about people you do not know based on their religious belief without knowing anything about why they individually believe or do not. You are shouting your belief of no God from the mountains so by your own logic, I have the right to say this? I don’t believe in God but I do believe in tolerance and you are the biggest moron based on your coments. MissMissy Of course among all educated people it is common knowledge that there is no such thing as god. SO moving on from that, he is a strong, brave man. What happened to him was shitty but he has used that as his strength. Go Ross! Madeline MissMissy, I understand you do not believe in God and I won’t try to change your mind because I believe you should be allowed to have your own opinion without others criticizing you for it. I must say however that my father, a Havard graduate, memeber of the American Businessmen Association, member of MENSA, former Special Forces officer who risked his life so that people such as yourself have the freedom to criticize others for their personal beliefs, vice president of an extremely profitable company in the Middle East, and the most intelligent person I have ever known, is in fact a Christian. He is fluent in English, Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Farsi, and French that I am aware of. He is also almost fluent in Chinese, German, Korean, and Russian, keep in mind this is only what I am aware of. He recieved medical training while serving his country, he is not a doctor however he would be able to keep you alive in the middle of the desert in the event you were shot fighting for your country. At 16 he started dating my mother, married her at 21, and after two daughters, three grandchildren, and 35 years of marriage, he has been an amazing father, grandfather, and husband. Coming from a poor family from Mississippi, my father did everything he could to provide for his family and be responsible with his money; I happen to be writting this from the comfort of the stunning $800,000 home given to me as a wedding present so I would say he educated himself how to manage money wisely so he could afford to spoil his family. My father donates money to numerous charities including Wounded Warriors. He has read the Bible, Quuran, and Torah. He has vistited more countries than I could even remember, can hold an intelligent conversation with you about anything you could think of, and unfortunately for your argument is undoubtedly extremely educated. I truly feel sorry for you that you feel a need to criticize others if they do not agree with you, hopefully one day you will become knowledgable of tolerance of others. Cindy I can see you take Christian teachings to heart! You are just so humble! Following in Jesus’s footsteps; he too preached from his “$800,000 home”. But that is in the lesser known, abridged version of the bible. Shawn When you look at the millions and millions of “believers”, your father is by far the exception, not the rule. justsoyouknow Albert Einstein believed in God mona Wow… I think all of those commenting missed the point of this story. Way to turn this kids life story into your opportunity to debate theology. I’m sure that’s what this kid wanted… antony i believe in miracles. period. Candice This should have never been turned into a debate about Gods exsistence. We all have our views, beliefs and opinions. We all should be able to comment with respect and maturity. There is no reason to start taunting others by calling them out on what they believe and there is no need to lower yourself down to the levels of those who do. You don’t teach ignorance with more ignorance. I believe in God and I know his love and mercy, but I will not force it down anothers throat and I will always try to maintain integrity and compassion no matter who I am speaking to and how destructive or hurtful they may be. You simply withdraw from the ridiculous conversation, be the better person and pray for them (if you believe). This story above is amazing and it deserves all the attention. Let those who believe it was the grace of God who saved him believe (no need for disprespect) and let those who don’t believe, continue not to. This is not the time or place for this conversation. Take care and God Bless.. Brian D Lewis god this god that, i don’t believe, i do believe, who fucking cares either way, this story has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with 1 strong person’s story of overcoming near death and fighting to survive, why do you people on both sides have to make everything about you and how you think and feel. Just take the story for what it is and stop trying to make it about yourself. Respect to this kid, eye of the tiger! Dan M This comment makes me feel like I haven’t completely wasted my time reading to this point. I actually feel a little more motivated now. Thank you. Shelby If you don’t believe in God, that’s fine. I won’t insult you, argue with you, or try to change your mind. You can believe what you believe. To criticize people, call them names, and say such horrible things about their personal beliefs simply because you don’t agree is, in my opinion, absolutely disgusting. An amazing young man is telling his story of such a horrible thing that happened to him and how he survived. I don’t recall him asking for a debate or attack on Christianity or any religion or belief at all for that matter. So thank you for sharing your story Ross, it truly is incredible. Keith Young Some of u guys are morons this kid got his life saved period instead of praising the message of this story you come on here and call people names I’m not religious but let’s see one of you non believers get shot and about to die and see if u don’t call out to God to save up life I’m from nwk NJ somebody’s always getting shot or killed everyday friends family and even strangers. Like I said let’s see if you stick to your misguided ideas if u lookin down the barrel of a gun freakin jerks Shawn To talk like that to “nonbelievers”, you most certainly are quite religious. evpocket This was a higher power. God however you define it, the forces of the universe, dark matter, fairies, or the resilience of the human mind and spirit, picked this kid up and gave him a chance to live. He fought, he took it, and he persevered through the struggles afterward. I know there is a God though I cannot define it, “he” saved me from the same fate, similar situation, left to die by a “friend”. Kidney Liver and Lung failure Aug 2013 given less than 24 hrs to live. 36hrs later my family was told I wouldn’t last the night. 9 surgeries, 56 days hospitalized and 2 below knee amputations later I was sent home. Then life got hard. But it’s getting better every day. Take your petty prejudices and beliefs somewhere else. Don’t pervert this story with anger, some of us need the message. Nick Seb ‘xplo’ Lemery Its funny how people thinks GOD has anything to do with this, your “GOD” is a fictional dude, in a fictional book.. wake the fuck up CJjup His soul was talking to him to not close his eyes an he prob saw himself talking to himself forcing him not to die, he has a strong will for sure. One point i take from this is yes he was being nice to bring his friend sometimes push comes to shove and he shuda pushed back harder and should have stayed true to his inner self he never wanted to go there. Wud u rather be feared or loved? DeJanay Booth Lighten up. It’s a wonderful story. Think about the lesson of the story and get y’all head out of y’all egotistical asses. Jordan Levine Corey Kelly don’t worry these people are idiots for coming at you. Wasn’t the rapture supposed to happen and get rid of all of these wingnuts already? Nana12345 The rapture has not happened because no one knows when it’ll happen. Whoever claims they know is spewing lies. So what if we believe in God? What right do you have bashing our beliefs? Funny how people claim there is no God yet His is the first name you call during a crisis? Stop acting so high and mighty. I’m an educated medical professional and still believe in my God. If people have tragedies and deaths don’t blame God, blame the fact that the opposite of God (Satan) just loves to kill and destroy.I couldn’t care less what you call me but now I know why people can’t stand atheists. You guys can’t read the word “God” without bursting into flames. Jordan Levine Ok 1. I’ve never called god so I don’t know where you got that from. 2. Maybe we bash your beliefs because Christians are always the first ones in line to “condemn us to hell” for not believing. 3. You being a medical profession means nothing. You may be educated in medicine but that says nothing about your intelligence or ability to use common sense obviously. Valerie Finnigan To all of you saying God had nothing to do with this and that the boy was hallucinating, clearly you have not done sufficient research on near death experiences. People have seen their own bodies, the rooms they were in, who else was in the room, what they were wearing, et cetera, when they could not physically see- and they knew they couldn’t physically see. Shock does a lot of things to people, true, but you still don’t know if it was a divine being or an unseen but human Good Samaritan who helped the boy up and propelled him forward to where others could find him, or if he was really capable on his own of getting up and walking- as badly injured as he was- and the help he got getting to his feet was some hallucination. I do know this. Hallucinations don’t offer any concrete assistance. The guy says someone helped him up. He was there. It happened to him. You weren’t there. You know nothing of what he experienced other than what he said. So he’s either lying, he’s engaging in some attempt to make sense of an incident he had no reason to believe he’d survive, or he’s telling the truth. But unless you were there or you otherwise know more about this case than anyone else posting here, you really don’t know. And then there was the fact that an officer “just happened by” the right place at the right time to find the guy, and that the ER doctor “just happened” to have a hunch that the DOA he got actually had a reasonable chance of survival. I’ve worked as an EMT long enough to know that, while I don’t count on them happening when or how I want, miracles do happen. TEE Thank God. It is God that did it. If not for the hand that grabbed him and pushed himTto go forward the probation officer would not have seen him. Sick of people trying to discount God’s hand in this. IF u are too ignorant to know that God did this then you have a serious problem. DONT UNDERSTAND WHY PPL ARE SO UPSET WHEN ONE MENTIONS GOD….GOD IS GOOD AND HE WAS GOOD TO ROSS..NOW HE HAS A SECOND CHANCE. POINT BLANK. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. THANK GOD ALSO FOR THE MEDICAL PERSONNEL AS WELL Shawn Stfu troll, we both know better. You’re just afraid to admit it. Liz I do believe you are being the trolls Shawn. Trolling comments with negativity along with many others. Daniel Tarr Zeitgeist: The Movie For all the so called believers..u should actually learn something about your so called faith or b ignorant and just believe watever u r told too!! stephen2712 He got shot and almost died. He believes it was god. Who the duck are you to tell him hes wrong just because you dont have faith. No one is shoving religion down your throat yet you feel its ok to spew hate about another persons beliefs. This has nothing to do with religion or lack thereof, but about being a good person. You’re an atheist, cool. No one cares. Go join an atheist blog. Shawn I love how atheists telling you you’re wrong qualifies as hate. I think it’s more like, you just hate being wrong, so you call it spewing hate. When really you just hate yourself for being stupid enough to believe this shit. Liz You might consider watching the video again. The young man never once mentioned God so no one is trying to tell him otherwise. I’m all for supporting everyone’s right to their own belief, I just don’t agree with putting words in that were not there and claiming they were said. chris why cant i live in a world where people respect others and the differences in others instead of bash them, religion or not. JamesBond I don’t remember God going to school for a PhD. Nor can you say that God was involved at all. Sorry, but talking about philosophers from the past who believed in God contradict themselves. For one, in Philosophy, a true philosopher knows that you cannot argue the existence of something on the account that you cannot prove it doesn’t exist. In simple terms and for example, Santa is real because you cannot prove he isn’t real is a false argument in Philosophy. Anyone who studies this in college knows this example. Second, back in the day, you were stoned to death or beheaded if you didn’t say you believed in God, so don’t say things that aren’t accurate unless proven otherwise. Third even if God was involved, I’m sure that he didn’t intend for this type of garbage to happen. My thoughts, even if you don’t care, is that if God did exist, you wouldn’t learn anything from him. Thank God for permitting me to convey my thoughts. [sarcasm] Scot Conway Glancing at the comments, it seems the only point of the whole story was to trigger a theological debate. I was under the mistaken impression that there were real people involved here with real lives and a lot of people were involved. Thank God, sure, and the people involved, but let us keep the focus where it is and not let someone’s comment trigger a whole series of discussion and debate that has nothing to do with the actual issue at hand. If someone want to thank God, thank Allah, thank Zeus, thank the purple people eater, thank science, than the medical researchers, thank war for the advancements in medicine… I’m not to get lost in that debate and miss the whole point of the article. It’s amazing that gangs do this. It’s amazing when people survive the ordeal. It’s amazing that our first responders, doctors, and ordinary citizens know what they know, have the tech that we have, and will do what they do to save lives. Some “amazing” is bad, some “amazing” is awesome. I’ll focus my attention there. I’ll save the God debates for another thread that is actually about that. https://twitter.com/GotaGiTTaRIMJOB Walter Derden I HOPE THAT FAGGOT PUNK COWARD PIECE OF DOG SHIT GETS FUCKED IN THE ASS UNTIL HIS GOD DAMN INTESTINES FALL OUT. THEN BEAT SO BRUTALLY IN PRISON THAT HES PARALYZED FOR THE REST OF HIS PATHETIC LIFE. George Rapko The kid’s a good story teller. You people arguing about God or god can get bent. Randy Gee, for a supposed Supreme Being, God seems awfully insecure. Rémi Bergeron Saying God doesn’t exist because “you don’t see it” is like watching a painting or a sculpture and say it has created itself because there’s nobody beside it to say “I created this”. A painting for example, as apparently started from nothing, if you only look at the physical,(just like the universe…) but it as started as an idea in the mind of the creator. (is it visible!? nop. Does that mean the idea doesn’t exist because we can’t see it!? for sure it exist) Then again, if he start to paint, at the beginning it can look all messy, (looks like the creation of the universe again… no!?) but the painter know where he’s going. And at the end you can contemplate his beautiful creation. Does the painting has created itself!? absolutely not. And even beyond… does the Creator was visible!? “yes, i saw the guy who painted it” In fact, NO!! the creation has started in the invisible part (knowledge, feeling, emotion, intention etc..) and the physical body was moved by this. I consider myself as a spiritualist, and i’m proud of it. U know why!? because we don’t separate science and morality!! Melissa Vaccaro Nicely said!! Shawn Sure, he used a lot of big words and stuff, but no. It was a bunch of drivel that makes very little sense. Joebloe explain your point then… latenightphilosopher for all of those that believe that god helped in with this kid’s battle to live, more power to you. and all those who value the doctor’s and medical science advancements, the same. but when talking about god one question will stump all believers and another to stump all non-believers. if there is no god, then what was the catalyst for the big bang? because without matter there is nothing but on the other side of the argument if god created us, then who created god? even an all powerful being cannot create himself before he even exists there is only two possible responses that answer both with some level of realistic possibility, 1) god exists simply because of the human race’s faith in his existence and since we believe him to be a omnipotent/omniscient space and time transcending entity he created the universe so that we in turn are created thusly creating him through the power of our faith. it’s a circular mind-over-matter thing. our creator created us so we could create him 2) somebody with a time machine went back to just before the big bang happened to see what caused it but since that would be before the existence of the universe they would be in a dimensional plane of no space nor time, where the laws of physics are nonexistent. and since one must assume that if time travel will ever be possible there must also be a way to return to the time and space from whence they came but only if they are still within the confines of space and time. now either since the laws of physics don’t apply said time traveler might be able to create the universe simply by willing it to exist or he wanted to return to his time and his only hope would be to overload however he would normally return and the resulting explosion IS the big bang. it’s like the family guy episode where stewie and brian fight in the time machine and go back before the universe exists either one is a more viable explanation of both sides of how the universe was made. there might be a god there might not, if there is awesome if there isn’t also awesome because either way the universe exists and we shouldn’t be worried about questions that will never be answered until we are already dead, just live life to the fullest and try your best to not be an asshole. Believes the Bible 1 Timothy 6:3-5 English Standard Version (ESV) “3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound[a] words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth,imagining that godliness is a means of gain.” Robi Aamodt It’s sad to me that we can destroy such a great story with stupid comment arguments. What is more important than who helped Ross to stay alive (besides himself and his will to live, which no one has yet mentioned) is the simple fact that IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED! Bad things do happen everyday, but so do good things like Ross’ story. Thanks for fighting despite the odds, bro. Robi Aamodt Upon further review of earlier comments, there are some who agree with me. good. Shawn Good for you. Maybe a few of them will come along and like your comment now that you said that. Pepperay Fuck you god people, seriously… This is a truely inspiring story, and yes, he seems to have been helped by his spiritual protector, but that has nothing to do with “God” and it wasn’t “god” that saved his life, it was the doctors, and not because “god” gave them intelligence or created the universe, as it is evolution that humans came to be, not fucking adam and eve and incest upon incest that created the human race… Shawn Exactly. But we’re the bad guys for pointing that out, for telling THEM to stop diverting the point of the fucking story. Now we’re the ones diverting the point of the fucking story. Imagine that. justjoe58 From a Christian standpoint, God created man with free will. Man chose to go against Gods one rule and ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge (of good and evil). That is why there is sin, death, disease, war and strife on this earth and always will be. I expect that some of you will curse me for my beliefs, as you do all who believe in God and worship Him. It has always been so and will always be. Such is the nature of man. I choose not to put my faith in the works of man, but in our creator, God Almighty. Praise be to Him! Justin Thompson Why does everything turn into a religious argument? This video has nothing to do with god or a higher power or any of that shit. The point of the video is that you should appreciate life and live it because shit like this happens all the time. He got a second chance and arguing over whether god, or science, or whatever you think is responsible for that is stupid. Nicole Such an inspirational story! I hope this will make a positive mark on our world. It reminded me to be grateful for what I have because it can all change so quickly. Ashley But why does this turn into a debate between whether God is real or not? Who fucking cares, this kid just survived a crazy ordeal and is telling us his amazing story you people are bickering over the existence of some higher power. Yikes. Rob Why is this a religious debate? This is an amazing story of triumph and whether you believe in God or not, what happened to this kid is amazing. He is an inspiration for thinking positive and getting through this. If he wasn’t a fighter he would have just fallen asleep for good. It is really troubling to me that people would turn this into a religious debate. If you’re religious or you’re not, you’re not going to find out until your dead so don’t waste your life on it. Ange This guy was shot by a shotgun and lived and you people in the comments are having a debate about acts of kindness. This guy is a miracle,not to many people would have survived something like this. This is a great story and should be shared with everyone because something like this can happen to anyone,which is scary. El diablo nucha duerme. Ange *nunka Brian Bennett Way for the commentators to take a great story and turn it into an argument. How about all you childish people just believe what you believe and leave everyone else alone. Bunch of maniacs running around going “I’m RIGHT…HUH UH I’M RIGHT and you can STUFF IT!” This kid SURVIVED. Personally I myself thank God for that, if you don’t believe in God then you are living in a free country…thank whoever you want to thank but stop this childish and petty squabbling. This silly fighting ruins everything. Tony People arguing for God – spoiler alert: you’re gonna be in a hole soon, and all your words and fairy tales will make you be remembered as a dolt This was a great interview. This lad is a warrior and a dope skater. Keep on keeping on. Fight the fight against gangs, organized religion and all the other awful entities fighting for your money and life. John Phillip I was shot july 22 2009 by a gang, i feel your pain that shit you said about being in public i feel you man Anonymous If people choose to believe that it was god’s doing let them. If you choose that it was every other person’s doing do that. There’s really no need to fight over such a positive video. I don’t believe in God but I do believe, belief is what makes us who we are so don’t try to take it away from each other. Mi-24HIND Free will- You can do as you’d like, but if you don’t do it my way know that I’ll send you to suffer for an eternity or two and never speak to you again, because as an omnipotent deity who’s eternal, I still have the mentality of a six year old. Question anything I say or do and I’m gonna take my messiah and go home. Also, I will spread the truth through my disciples and representatives on Earth, but I’m going to make them scientifically wrong just to test you. Along with the rest of your life. I’m also going to send my son to tell you one thing, and a guy named Paul 80 years later who will completely contradict my own son’s message. You should believe Paul and do as HE says. It’s all a test. You have free will, but don’t get it wrong. kyle God doesn’t exist. This was the work of a dedicated doctor, and a kids will to survive. The fact that the guy called it in just means a) he was a good person, and b) he didn’t like the other kid and wanted him put away. It is high school after all. kyle *or, not and =p IBelieveInMiracles What i get out of this story is that he feels like it is a miracle he is alive after being shot 3 times by a shot gun, in the arm, chest and leg, and feels blessed to be alive. Does he not say in his own words that he tried but could not get up and something he could not see or feel pushed him up and to go forward and he made it out of the bushes where the parol officer at that moment found him. That is an amazing miracle! That is what I believe to be God! It is a miracle that even though the EMT’s called him dead at the arrival of the hospital that the Dr. On call Continued to work on him even though it was more likely he would never wake up. It is a miracle that he woke up in 3 short days. Especially when he describes how amazed the nurses and Dr’s were to see him awake. it is a miracle he is alive despite his lack of judgement and giving in to persuasion, and he is grateful for that push out of the bushes. And feels blessed. Does he not? People make mistakes they give in to persuasion or give in to sin because they are at there own will to make that judgement call. i believe he knows he made the wrong call to go into that area and that he also believes that the fact he is alive after being shot with a shotgun in the arm, chest, and head is a miracle! God creates miracles and I believe in miracles! Weather u do or not i don’t care. Thank u Ross for sharing your miraculous story! Mike I don’t want to say he is lucky…but he is lucky he was 17 and young/strong enough to live through something like that. I don’t care how spiritual or not you are but you have to admit it took a miracle that he survived that. Taz Flying Spaghetti Monster bitches. siggyvidir Thats so original. How on earth did you ever come up with that? OMG I want to be just like you. Helter Skelter The power of human will and consciousness is what drove this man to survive… He is so strong in body and soul… And I think that’s a far better compliment than: “You’re so lucky god saved you.” kkk Typical niggers bob Why argue whether there is a God or not? I’m confused. An amazing thing happened here that’s all that’s important. The doctor helped save him, the man who called the ambulance helped save him and if people want to believe that God was involved to why is it anyone else’s place to tell them they are wrong? or vice versa. No one is positive of what happened but every person has a right to believe what they want. Saying there is a God does not mean that the other people involved are not just as responsible for saving his life. You are just as arrogant to say God does not exist, you cannot possibly know for sure if he does. No one does. There are scientists who believe in God, does not mean that science is not also right. Maybe God is just something that we are not completely capable of understanding. Dodge Was it God? Was in another higher power? Was his will to live? Notice in both videos not one mention of God. It just was not his time to leave. Hard to fathom that God would pick him as a simple pawn. Ha the outcome had been different how then would it be. God’s pawn simply dies and so on to the next? I’m not saying that God doesn’t exist but what I am saying is that Mankind has made his choice and that choice being that mankind can do things on their own. I believe it is called freewill. So mankind is left to prove himself before God without God’s help. Unfortunately as history has shown us mankind in spite of all the knowledge mankind still fudges everything. Believe what any of you want because yes whatever it was his being alive today is really beyond the realms of average thinking. Thank his will to live? That the doctor who refused to quit? Thank the power of positive prayer and thinking (which in many cases work yet science has yet to figure out how)? Thank science? Thank love? Thank the Hindu goddess Kali? Thank Allah of the Koran? Thank God of the Christian Bible. Thank He of the whose name should never be spoken as said in the Jewish Torah. The man is alive and that is what matters. He has gained a new lead on life and he knows it and that in itself is amazing. He admitted the road back was extremely hard on him, his family and all those that loved and helped him along the way. We can see it in his face and we can hear it in his voice he has found a new respect for life and is cherishing every precious moment of this second chance. Bhel Mnarg as i look around at the world today and what is has become since your god “created it” and all the things that have come to pass that are truly evil that have shaped our world today while your god watches the supposed ‘free will’ of other men shape the very lives and circumstance of other men to bring them born into evil than your god is no better than the crowd that watches a woman gang raped. so i say fuck your god. and put him on trial along with the rest of the scum and condemn his almighty to death. rise o mighty bal’land the god slayer and drive your sword into the empty heartless void of man’s god so that the skies may rain with his blood. Jessica Who gives a fuck about any of thr pointless arguments anyof you are making? He’s alive. Its incredible. No one needs youropiniom about what he went throufh self-righteous assholes. Jessica Wow typos. Thanks phone. Joy This story is truly inspiring. It is a testament to peoples choice to live, divine intervention and human good will. I am so happy he is alive to tell this story. What a beautiful message to us all. It is no accident he is alive and it took the effort of himself, “god” and other people to make this story unfold as it did. Glad you’re alive buddy! I think you have shared and will continue to share amazing things with the world. Ashley Call it what ever yall want this is an amazing story or survival this young man at the end of the day is luck to be alive and had the courage to face his attacker in court and to fight for his life to survive. Schlaves Truly amazing story. Bless this kid. However, I am not a fan of the title of this article… It shouldn’t say “they chose the wrong kid.” NO ONE, should have to be chosen…. Pablo Great story, even a near death experience happened to him. I’m not religious or an aitheist, but believe him. Too bad the comments are full of people doing a pissing match about the existence of God and not about him. Selfish people out there, including the guy who attempted to randomly murder him to get in a gang. siggyvidir What is truly sad is the shooters family cheering him on.. Purple suit and top hat??? If you saw that in a movie you wouldn’t believe it. Kathy murotani Wow, what am awesome guy, thank God he survived, what a blessing. May the rest of his life be as blessed as he is. ck5992 lol this is going no where every one is entitled to there own beliefs that’s the beauty of free will let me just say this when you take your final breath on this earth what if your wrong about god and you choose not to follow him and you spend an eternity of separation from him in a place unimagined. A terrible place filled with all the evils you despise…..if im wrong I simply die and that’s the end of it. So if that’s a chance you are willing to take then please by all means continue your life how you wish…. This is not why I personally follow the teachings of my lord and and savior, but if for any other reason than this I highly recommend anyone who does not believe give the lord a chance. Ive experienced every “pleasure” this world has to offer and none compares to what ive been given FREELY I might add through a simple step in faith. Either way as a man of god im called to love and pray for others so its exactly what I will do. Bless everyone who has commented on this and I can almost bet if you asked this young man what he personally believes I know what he would say. Ray Yeates God Bless you young warrior. This old man is very proud of you for sharing your story. Most of all thank you for concluding with your gratitude for what you have now and not what you don’t have. To me that tells a whole other piece of your journey on this wonderful planet. Thanks again. It’s a shame so much debate has been cast upon this warriors testament. If you really want evidence to prove or disprove the contrasting views I would suggest taking five minutes of your time right about now. The time to go and find a mirror that you can look into and recognize who is staring back at you. Do you like what you see? Do you feel what that person feels? Do you know that person well enough to know love for them? Do you care enough to take the time now and ask….” Do you love me”? Do you hear and answer? Do you like the answer? Do you love that person in the mirror for that answer? Do you believe it? God Bless you all for your views but remember before you reprimand me…..I have my own mirror to deal with. Milwaukee Nick I also want to say, kudos to you man. Skateboarding brought me through some tough times, but nothing like what you experienced. You’ve got some good things in store, you were meant to be here. Keep being awesome. Desirae Instead of debating over God, how about all of you enjoy the story and be amazed and happy that this kid survived? It doesn’t matter how it happened, it matters that it did. No need to bash on each other. Liz My goodness. If you wish to give credit to your God then so be it. It’s wrong of us to tell eachother otherwise. Everyone is free to their own opinion without mockery for it. If this story strengthens your beliefs then that’s wonderful. My beliefs don’t involve any God or devil and I’m not being punished for it and it’s not your job to try and condemn . If a belief in God helps keep you on your path in life and its what keeps you strong then embrace it. When you become judgmental on others and react with negativity toward what they believe in… you really think “God” approves of those actions? This story uplifted my beliefs that it’s our souls that guide us, help us and strengthen us on our life paths we have chosen for ourselves to experience. If you want to view it as”God” because it gives you that same strength in moving forward, then that’s what you should do. Science cannot explain everything. No one holds proof of what the spiritual dimension holds, be it God or equal spiritual intellectual energies that desire knowledge through experience. There is nothing in our reality dimension that proves anything after dead. No a book written by a living man saying God said to write it, does not count. The only proof each of us has is how we feel about it. No one can feel your feelings, only share it with their own feelings. A belief is a feeling just as faith is a feeling to accompany it. Everyone is meant to live and feel the way they do so they can live and learn from the life they were meant to. mandy All the Glory to God!! Amber Everyone’s getting too caught up in the god and doctor argument. That’s not what’s important. What’s important is that this man has another chance at life, and that he is able to move on and enjoy life after all he has been through. Focus on the real message of the video rather than your stupid beliefs or non beliefs SomeRandomGuy Ugh… Hardcore Athiests are just as bad as hardcore religious fanatics… straight_edge Great Story !!! AA ron Human is just another way of saying designed to fail miserably Alexthetallguy This is such a testament to what God can do, you should be Inspired ! Suzy Collins Actually, God was there. If you will recall in his recant of the events, he stated that someone, or something lifted him up and pushed him forward. Had that not occurred, he would more than likely not have been found. He stated that there was not a human body behind him, nudging him along. That was either God, or one of his angels sent to help him. He had a reason to live and God saw that he did. Otter Is no one going to talk about the idiot who shot him?….. Emmett How did he get the shotgun into the car with him noticing?? or was it at the scene and he got it once he got out of the car? Emmett Without* fuckthehaters To all the haters: If God doesn’t exist, then how is anything wrong or right? What do our choices matter? If somebody dies, so what? You ridicule Christians for believing Satan is real, but you are the fools who buy into the biggest lie of all time, that he does not exist. mrjrcash its about a kid that survived…isnt that enough? y argue about god ppl,not everyone will ever agree.just be happy the kid made it Brandon Littlefield I love how he says someone helped pick him up. I know that was God pushing him along. I had a similar experience where God pushed my car out of the way of a nasty accident. I know it was God’s hand. Never had any doubts after that. I knew God was real and knew my name. He cared for me even though I am only 1 person out of 7 billion on this earth. Glory to God!! Gods True Soldier All you people that wanna thank the people before god are retarded if it wasnt for God those ppl wouldnt have been there to do what they done. GLORY BE TO GOD! AND FORGIVE THEM FATHER FOR THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY DO OR SAY! repellant Why is it that Liberal athiests want to absolve people from personal responsibility when those people do something bad, but have issues when someone else prises God for something good happening? B. LeVine. Although unrelated to the article, in response to every argument either attempting to discredit Faith in GOD, or arguing against HIS existence on the basis of –as illogical as it sounds– not being subject to scientific standards, the same overlooks two fundamental things: (1) Faith in GOD requires people to believe in GOD. This belief is in what we cannot see, smell, touch, etc. (i.e., intangible); whereas, (2) science requires sensory observations of tangible things (things that can be seen, touched, etc.) from which “conclusions” are drawn by people who are taught to make them. Accordingly, any attempt to undermine Faith by pointing out that it does not comport with science, or its methods (i.e., observations), not only (i) presupposes that science is the basis for what “is,” which incidentally, seems to require faith in those observations (i.e., subjecting life, existence to what some *whole in a lab coat determines, is spectacularly ambitious), (ii) it also imposes on Faith a standard that it deliberately rejects (i.e., Faith is believing in what you have not seen, not the other way around). Like the difference between wisdom and knowledge, It is something you understand, a way to live, rather than just learn, with the humility to recognize that in order for things to exist they are not required to be subject to our sensorical recognition of them. Fithian Great story. Then I saw the comments. Bah! Matt If god is so good and worthy then why would he ruin so many lives involved in this tragedy ( prison, shot, parents, family of both sides?!? They are all ruined fr this experience for the rest of their lives). If god saved him god compelled the kid to kill. So what god is good? Your voodoo god doesn’t exist Oh my, another story of human willpower being ruined by an invisible grandfather stealing all the credit. Quit shitting on human strength and thinking it doesn’t smell, you fucking religious nuts are why we as a species are set back in technology so far. How you idiots sound. All hail the mighty bearded man in the sky, the racist gay bashing white supremacist who murdered his son, the amazing magician who sought to slaughter thousands in the Crusades, the hateful spiting old man who controls us all like slaves, for he is our all powerful master and we should do his every whim because we were told to in a book printed a hundred years ago about happenings from supposedly thousands ago, and therefor it must be true if you ignore all the loopholes and obvious lies. For this terrifying hate is the reason this boy was shot. Amen. just a believer It’s sad people discredit God because there is evil in this world. They fail to see the hate in this world cause the Almighty should save everyone from the rapist, the murder, and the devil; just like there is good, there is also evil. God doesn’t pick and choose who he saves, he sent Jesus to save us all, through his death, everyone shall live. All you have to do is believe. I understand it’s hard for some people. I understand science explains a lot of the phenomenon that happens in this world. But science can NOT explain the magnetic impulses that cause a thought but we can die from being electrocuted. Science can NOT explain a lot of things that “science” is so called to be able to do. Just think of all the wonders in this world, explain how one atom or billions of atoms can make one thing and a different atom can make something completely different. Atoms are made up of neutrons, protons, and electrons but what are those made up of?? … can science explain that?? I bet God can Blake If you looked at the universe as one organism… Why in the world is our world at war with ITSELF? This guy Lol Religious nuts. Wasting your time giving all credit to a story book character. Santa, Easter bunny, tooth fairy, sasquatch etc same example. Just because somebody says it’s real dosnt mean anybody has seen it or can prove it exists. Nothing but a crutch for life. Have fun being crippled with your crutches while I enjoy mine without some imaginary dictator telling me what to do. logic yes yes so good, thank God that God allowed him to be put in harm’s way! It’s all part of “His” plan……. if he has a plan then what is the point of praying? I mean what if what you want isn’t in “his” plan? Does “he” change his plan?…..if so then what is the point of a divine plan if someone can come along every 5 mins and change what was in “his” plan….. or on the other hand, what if “he” changed his plan to answer this prayer, then still isn’t praying 50 50 when it comes to having them answered? Also, in the nanoseconds needed to jump from a horrible train wreck, or raping, or a stoning all happening within his plan, “he” decided to “show” his existence or “love” by almost having a young man be killed……well makes perfect sense when you don’t think about it. Jonathan Ranard God loves you and wants the best for you weather you choose to believe in him or not. Jonathan Ranard I have an argument for you about weather god is responsible for the boy being shot, and the other going to jail. Its kind of long so I hope you read it all. “Is there such a thing as cold? No. We can not measure cold, the censation we call cold is actually the absence of heat. Is there such a thing as dark? No. We can not measure darkness only the absence of light. Evil in the world is the same way. It is the absence of god in people’s lives, and choices. God does not cause evil, however he Will not violate our free will. And when people choose to live a life appartment from god, and make ungodly choices that evil happens in the world”-Albert Einstein. I parafraised a few parts but you get the meaning I hope. Tony Funny thing: reading all the comments on the video from people saying give credit where credit was due. The doctor who saved his life, the person who called in the crime were the heroes and that God had nothing to do with it. They claim, If God had something to do with it why did he let this 17 year old kid get shot? Morons I say. Even the kid testifies that hands picked him up off the ground and pushed him forward and even testifies that no one was there. Who do these atheist think that was? If that kid hadn’t gotten up and made it to the street where he was seen by the parole officer, indeed he would have bled to death right where he was shot. The kid says he was picked up and pushed forward. Who do they think did that? It certainly wasn’t the doctor. Where was God and why did he allow this kid to get shot. The kid mentions over and over in the video that he had a bad gut feeling about going to this part of town. Told his shooter no on several occasions before finally deciding to take his friend to the East side. Who do the Atheist think was putting those bad gut feeling into this kids conciseness? It certainly wasn’t the doctor or the parole officer or the person calling in the crime. That’s how God works but we also have the gift of choice, and the kid chose to ignore Gods warnings and still…God saved his life. Pete I’m afraid God had nothing to do with his recovery anymore than God had something do with his shooting; you can’t have one and not the other. What sickens me the most is the mentality of the shooter’s family who must have the morality of a sewer-rat. What possesses such people who condone and then applaud the shooting, and then have the sickening temerity to sit in judgment of Ross implying he should have not gone to the courts and been a man. The scum-bag who did the shooting didn’t exactly cover himself with glory or bravery when he bushwhacked and shot an unarmed man 3 times from point blank range; yeah, that took real balls didn’t it :/ Mind you, I’m sure the scumbag will have some real fun banged up for so many years having to ponder just how much fun Ross is having in the outside world … Respect to Ross for being a real man, a man who accepts the responsibility of being a civilised member of society. I hope the shooter rots in his own misery every single and separate day of his incarceration …. Jason Ohms wow the intelligence of some people god gives all the choice of free will,no matter what anybody says this was a miracle and it was only by god working threw ppl that this man lived. for the rest of u let me know how u feel when your judgement day comes Debra Vanata No thanks,TOO many Godless people in this conversation…The Lord works in mysterious ways-Through doctors,as well…I will pray for you all… Ethan Elias Ok so if you think it is just atrocious to give credit to God for the doctors saving Ross’ life that’s fine. But then please, for the love of God, tell me to whom the credit should be given for the invisible arms picking up his limp body and giving him a push. Because last time I checked, there is no “logical” explanation for that. You can choose to believe that he invented that part of the story or that he was delirious or whatever! But hopefully you will come to realize that this story is one of countless examples of God’s inconceivable love for us. I hope you come to realize that the emptiness that your Atheism leaves you with can only be filled by the one-of-a-kind love of your Maker. God Bless <3 Gotgonnaargue I’m not one to comment on things like this but, why not. From the day he was asked to give his friend a ride he has a a feeling not to, I would say that this is god letting him know it’s not the right thing to do and not to do it. But god doesn’t get in the way of our free will. God was there to pick him back up and say it’s not your time. God blessed all those that helped with the power to be able to save this guy they were his angels he helped guide them that’s why the doctor felt the need to try even after he was pronounced dead. Citizen Just stop trying to reason with these religious nuts. They believe in a made up story, written by men about basically a super hero who created the world and controls everything….. They post on here claiming god is some how responsible, taking away where the real credit deserves to go because they are helpless in their own lives. They need a reason for things to be good, rather than taking responsibility. You’ll never win a fight with a religious nut because they are nuts. Thats like teaching a mentally retarded person calculus. Its not going to happen. Just let them keep living in a fantasy world where they “pray” for our souls, which by the way is such a douche bag comment. As if you feel sorry for those of us that use our brains, science and common sense. I feel sorry for YOU who needs some super being to answer questions like the people who lived on this Earth thousands of years ago before modern science. You know who else use God to explain everything? The ancient greeks and romans. Every heard of Greek mythology? Because its the same thing, a myth. How is your god today any different than the gods of those tales? Oh because those are just stories right? WOW thats sad if you are that naive. Tyler Praise be to GOD. ALL credit goes to GOD. Regardless of how people want to bring credit upon MORTALS, who GOT the talents and BRAINS to perform this miracle, FROM GOD. Anyone who is a SOLID, TRUE, and faithful believer knows, that God takes the reign. Thank You GOD for letting this man live to give an inspiring testimony to other young adults who attempt to get involved in gangs ect… God works in mysterious ways. Other who don’t believe in the OMNIPOTENT almighty Jesus Christ who DIED for your sins, should try God… You will NEVER be the same. ijustwantedtocomment You atheist nuts and religious nuts are so annoying. You’re just like gamers who argue about which console is the best. Here’s the thing: IF there is God you will never understand his or her ways. He is the creator of everything we know and don’t know. How can you possibly understand his motives and why he does what he does. Whether it’s saving this kid or choosing to not save another, as some of you argue, you’ll never see the logic. The other problem is that when you talk to an atheist or agnostic or whatever about God and try to make sense of it you won’t be able to simply because there’s no logic in religion. None. This is an amazing story about a kid who survived and instead of thanking God, medicine, the doctors, or whoever the Fuck you believe in, some of choose to just comment and attack people for their beliefs and basically say “no, you’re wrong cus you believe that, so let me tell you what’s right cus I’m right”. Get off your high horse and shut it. http://images.muchosucko.com/production/asset/thumb/083/150/hotblowjobaction.gif Common Non-Sense God’s last name is damn because the phrase God has no value what so ever, ignorant humans buy into religion so they can feel like they are a part of what’s right in their opinion… boy are they ever wrong… Truth Am I the only one that wishes gangbanging to be eradicated?, or are we just gonna keep talking bout God no god, who cares the kid is alive that should be what matters. paiger Every war ever started was over some version of some “God”. For example this thread! Just Sayin’, nough said! paiger It is not worth arguing your truth to someone that does not understand any power. They must experience it to believe it. NO force feeding here. sunny Why can’t Christians have free speech? Just wondering? I mean what’s it to you that don’t believe? You don’t have to, it’s a free world? Live and let live. This guy Ross is one lucky guy. I hope he is safe and lives a long healthy life. JD I just think its ridiculous that people are fighting over religion. This was about a young man fighting for his life. If you are religious than be that and if not than dont. But dont insult, or belittle someone because of their beliefs. there those who claim to believe in god saying their blessings to the young man but as soon as someone insults your faith you go off and become just as the other person. Thats hypocrisy at its best. Wether it was God, Allah, Buddha, Satan, or luck…..he didnt die!!! We can all agree that his will not anyone else’s kept him alive. keri He didn’t thank God once. But he’s truly blessed,he’s a walking testimony. nick I am confused tho..woudnt seem suspicious if a friend repeatedly ask to take him to a certain location, because apparently his cousin lives there?? huh whats do u guys think about this? baaba It’s a lot of everything that helped. The survivor’s will and fight and passion. The parole officer’s watchful and observant eye and quick thinking. The doctor who arrived to the scene’s gut instincts and motivation to save lives. The people in history who helped develop the knowledge the doctor learned, the technology, the blood donations, the financial donations to support all these people’s jobs and buildings and tools. God is a belief that inspires people to do good to have faith in a positive outcome. “God” definitely had a hand in helping this kid along with everyone else. Thank everything and don’t exclude something just cause you don’t believe. NZTechN9ne If he said he had SEEN “God/Jesus” lift him up or help him in anyway I guarantee 80%+ of you would call BS. If JESUS walked into your church claiming he was Jesus, he’d be out the door within seconds. So Sad Everything on this page is so sad. I wanted to read comments about the video and maybe join them. I prefer to save my religious debates with people who know what they’re talking about. Such a bummer.